Technique and methods
73 posts
Started 18 Jan 2017
A
Alanfraserpiano
Horowitz said himself that his double thirds were the weak point in his technique. But he had unparalleled technique in his knowledge of how to make a piano sound however he wanted, and also in the sense of his sensitivity. He could tell if the keys were uneven by literally a thousandth of an inch. Read Franz Mohr's 'My Life With the Great Pianists' to find out more.
Soon we will have Kemal Gekic's complete Chopin Etudes published. The double thirds etude on that CD will eclipse all the others mentioned. I know, I edited them!
In the editing process we constantly run up against this phenomenon, accuracy vs. musical content. We've found that for Kemal to really make magic musically, he has to "live on the edge" technically, and there are occasional smudges. He has made a conscious decision to accept those smudges as the price you have to pay for seeking musical gold in expression, emotion, colour and atmosphere.
All best,
AFF
A
A pianist
I didn't know that Horowitz considered double thirds the weak point in his technique. Is that in one of the biographies? You would never guess, based on how fluently Horowitz plays the double thirds at 0:40 in this video of the Brahms Concerto in Bb. According to John Browning, Horowitz told him that he has trouble with unison scales. In the Glenn Plaskin biography, Horowitz told Ivan Davis that it is sometimes easier to play double thirds in one hand than with both hands. Those statements wouldn't necessarily contradict the notion that double thirds were the weak point in Horowitz's technique. Perhaps Horowitz felt even less comfortable with double thirds than with unison scales.
Horowitz claimed that he couldn't play the "Winter Wind" Etude, because his hand felt like it was going to fall off after two pages. In the David Dubal biography, he also claimed that he couldn't play Chopin Etudes Opus 10 #1, 2, and 7. However, Horowitz was in his eighties at the time, and I wonder if he merely meant that he couldn't play the Etudes anymore, but he could have played them when he was younger. Horowitz's student, Alexander Fiorillo, claimed that his teacher could play all of the Opus 10 Etudes perfectly, seemingly contradicting Horowitz's claim that he couldn't play certain Etudes.
Apparently, even Horowitz had his limitations. I wonder if Schonberg was exaggerrating when he described Horowitz's technique.
A
Alanfraserpiano
I'm relying on my 56-year old memory for the double thirds quote - thought I read it in a biography somewhere...
AFF
A
A pianist
A blurring of notes caused by playing on the edge of one's technique
was abhorred by Rubinstein among others. I realize, from having done
extensive work in recording studios, that one develops what we call
studio ears i.e. very perceptive aural cognition.
That being said; other phenomena occur, to wit, we tend to fall in love with our projects. I have experienced this with projects of which I was
a part and others which upon hearing after a passage of time
altered my perception.
Jim
A
A pianist
Isn't that the one split between both hands? There's another later, only in the right hand. However, virtually every pianist uses a cheat based on only playing single notes for most of it.
A
Alanfraserpiano
Yes and Rubinstein sterilized his playing because of that abhorrence, at least in the studio recordings.
It's a phenomenon common to us all. Listen to the Cortot master class CD's - Cortot's playing is so much more beautiful than the studio recordings. Listen to the B minor Chopin sonata, it's a miracle of poetry. The studio recording that we all know is constrained by comparison... Listen to the Horowitz Columbia recordings - same thing... relatively sterile compared to what we know he could do. Or the live Pictures compared to the studio one...
Respectfully,
AFF
A
A pianist
I totally agree that is usually the case.
When I played with the London symphony
at Abbey Road studios, I didn't want to have
second or third takes or more because of my
obvious mistakes so what happens as you well
know is that one becomes too careful and does
not really get in touch with their muse.
It is said that Art Tatum's recordings suffered
from the same carefulness, however they still
boggle the mind.
Jim
A
A pianist
Isn't that the one split between both hands? There's another later, only in the right hand. However, virtually every pianist uses a cheat based on only playing single notes for most of it.
Yes, you're right. After looking at the score, I see that the passage is indeed split between both hands. At 4:57, the thirds in the right hand occur, which he plays quite easily, even if some cheating is involved. Schonberg described Horowitz's thirds in the Brahms 2 as having a "nonchalant flourish". When you talk about cheating, do you mean that the pianist redistributes most of the right hand notes for the left hand?
If you want to hear more of Horowitz's double notes, you could listen to his 1934 recording of the Schumann Toccata. , with its difficult double notes in the Coda, beginning at 9:16.
A
Alanfraserpiano
The double notes of the Schumann are different - there is no thumb crossing involved. And in that recording you hear the most important point about Horowitz: no matter how amazing his playing was physically, musical matters always take precedence. Listen to the colours, to the rhythmic exuberance and elan - that's what makes this performance great.
As for the 4th Ballade: Horowitz said his double thirds were the weak point of his technique - he didn't say that he couldn't play them at all! Perhaps "weak" would still be "fantastic" for any of us mere mortals.
AFF
A
A pianist
That's a good point about the Toccata. It isn't the same technical challenge as the "Double Thirds" Etude. Even the Coda of the f minor Ballade can't be compared to the "Double Thirds", as the former only contains double thirds for a few measures. Obviously, an Etude that contains pages of non-stop double thirds is going to be more technically demanding.
I agree that the musical matters are what Horowitz gives the most attention to in his recording of the Schumann Toccata- unlike his former colleague, Simon Barere. Horowitz played the Toccata considerably faster than Lhevinne, and while Horowitz's double notes had exceptional sparkle and forward impetus, they didn't sound as evenly matched as Lhevinne's. There were a few instances in the Horowitz recording where not all of the notes were equally weighted.
Create an account to reply
It's free and takes a moment. Already have one? Log in.
