All Thumbs - A Little Anatomy Questions

So, I've been spending some time reading and working through various parts of All Thumbs. The chapter that has caught my attention (even more than the rest!) is Chapter 14: A Little Anatomy. While all the information contained within is interesting, I find the part about distinguishing lumbrical and interosseous finger flexion the most fascinating. What I have gained so far is the insight that I've trained the lumbrical action a lot, and barely trained the interosseous action at all. I can get the interosseous action if I spend a lot of time using each interosseous individually to pull the finger sideways before really focusing and using both to pull the finger. It's not really what I'd call functional yet, though. I have a question regarding the use of the interossei: When the action is done properly, will there be absolutely zero participation from the tendons in the wrist, or will they move very slightly in sympathy with the finger? I ask because only with a very tiny movement do I get no reaction from the tendons, any further and they do move, but not so much in a tensing kind of way (if that makes sense?).

If you look at the anatomy you could safely assume that a purely lumbrical flexion would have no affect on those tendons. I suspect that the slight flexion of those tendons that occurs is a 'subsidiary' involvement of the lumbricals which, however, do not take over completely. AFF

Ok, thanks Alan. My current plan is to work the interosseous powered movement to a level of functionality, and then look at combinations of different types of movement. I feel that once I have the continuum of potential movement ranging from interosseous alone all the way to deep and superficial flexors alone and any combination in between I will have some freedom at the keyboard.

Absolutely right. Just remember that most of us are overly oriented to the deep/superficial flexors and need to to ignore them for some time until lumbrical and especially interosseous begin to pull their weight. AFF

I was playing around with getting the interosseous working at the keyboard today. I find activating them away from the piano easier now, but because my pianistic habits are so strong I was having trouble doing that same movement at the keyboard. Today I succeeded several times, but as I felt my awareness diminishing I stopped - no point infecting the good movement with my usual habit. While I was succeeding I did noticed that my finger warmed up significantly - I guess that was a combination of heightened awareness and lowered muscular tension. It's been a while since I worked one note at a time - last time was when I rebuilt my technique due to tendonitis. I'm enjoying it, though - when every note played is both a means and an end in itself the process of learning is dramatically changed and progress takes on a new meaning.

So, I've been spending some time reading and working through various parts of All Thumbs. The chapter that has caught my attention (even more than the rest!) is Chapter 14: A Little Anatomy. While all the information contained within is interesting, I find the part about distinguishing lumbrical and interosseous finger flexion the most fascinating. What I have gained so far is the insight that I've trained the lumbrical action a lot, and barely trained the interosseous action at all. I can get the interosseous action if I spend a lot of time using each interosseous individually to pull the finger sideways before really focusing and using both to pull the finger. It's not really what I'd call functional yet, though. I have a question regarding the use of the interossei: When the action is done properly, will there be absolutely zero participation from the tendons in the wrist, or will they move very slightly in sympathy with the finger? I ask because only with a very tiny movement do I get no reaction from the tendons, any further and they do move, but not so much in a tensing kind of way (if that makes sense?). Just a few thoughts here- I haven't had a chance to try those exercises yet, but it sounds like an interesting exercise to try to perceive things. However, without making any willful effort, I have noticed that my natural hand position has greatly more space between the knuckles, in recent times. I think it's come about without trying to feel the specific muscles, simply from the conception of the basic finger action. I think Thomas mark is the one who speaks of how pure knuckle pulls draw the knuckles together, automatically. Since I added the extension activity to other joints, I've realised that the slightly addition literally reverses the knuckle issue- they expand out and away from each other, despite the knuckle grasp action being fully retained. I'm sure this explains why my hand has been opening out so much. I think it automatically involves and trains the interosseus. My suspicion is that many seemingly pure knuckle pulls involve just traces of the extension, that are not always visible but which help out. Equally, if you make regular use of the extension, once there's more space between the knuckles to start with, actions that close them may be less of an issue. Basically, if you're in the habit of opening the knuckles, it need not be any worry if you also use actions that close them-as long as it's not your sole option to be drawing them together in every single action. I think Taubmann claims that stretching between fingers is bad and actually closes the hand in the long run. I wonder if this is strictly true? Maybe it's simply that stretching out while performing the action that closes sets up a conflict- where the hand strains to remain open? If it starts in its more closed position but expands out due to the extending action, the hand naturally opens. I'm suspecting that this is what they call 'letting the keys open the hand'- but that it has far more to do with the style of hand activity, than a literal truth? I suspect that forcing the hand to start too open causes strain to remain open, whereas moving from more closed to open via the act of key depression is better for flexibility. Anyway, I'm definitely going to try Alan's exercises for fine perception, but I have a strong suspicion that the quickest route to involving the interosseus is basically just to perceive the difference between the finger movement that opens the hand and that which closes it. I think there's something about the former action that brings them in by default. It's a very subtle difference in some ways, but i'm increasingly convinced that there are major anatomical issues that make for severe limitations, unless there is full access to the opening action.

Andrew, I've just been doing the extension action you speak of in mid air - the tendons in the wrist do stay passive unless I use a very vigorous movement. I think you've hit on something very useful. I'll play around with it at the piano over the next few days. Perhaps the new action will allow me to maintain more awareness when playing because it is different from what I'm used to. With regards to stretching - it seems the current understanding of stretching in our society is to set antagonistic muscle groups against each other and attempt to force length, which is harmful. It's horrifying to watch some footballers "stretching" before a match - they're doing nothing good for themselves and cultivating an environment for injuries to happen. So I think Taubman was utilising this definition of stretching. Edit: I've just been looking at the chapter in All Thumbs and it seems to confirm what you're saying, Andrew. Specifically, that when a pair of dorsal interossei are used together they extend the finger.