Weight Distribution Issues

There was a Feldenkrais ATM that I did with Alan, which involved sitting and leaning slightly to one side. Although the body naturally tends to put more weight on the corresponding buttock, the exercice involves resting it on the opposite side to that you are leaning over- in order to keep more stable. What do people normally do in this respect while moving to the extremes of the piano? There's a point in Thomas Mark's book about leading with the head- but not separately from the spine. Although on the surface thinking from the head might seem to encourage isolation from the spine, it's actually about keeping the whole thing as one unit that moves from the base of the spine. Anyway, he explains it a lot better than I do, but I've recently been exaggerating with leaning side to side a lot more. I've found in Etudes like op. 10 no. 1 and op. 25 no. 12, I was tending to have my right arm squashing up against my torso too much and have been leaning more in order to keep the space in the arm-pit more consistently open. Mainintaing the miniaturised "elbow out" rather than feeling it crushing against my body makes it far easier to keep the whole finger to shoulder in better alignment. I'm just wondering about the weight distribution while doing these. I've generally been doing the instinctive thing and letting the weight go on the buttock I'm leaning towards. However, I've also been experimenting deliberately putting in onto the opposite one. While I'm sure that experimenting is useful in itself, I'm still not quite sure what the best conscious intentions would be for this type of thing. Anyone else thought about this much?

I don't know how much is my question related to your post but I was wondering about the correct position of the left hand when playing, for instance, C minor scale from the C in the small octave. I am referring here to the left hand. Should I try to lean as much as possible towards right in order to allow the left hand to maintain its perpendicular alignment (relative to the woodboard where the brand of the piano is written) or should I just try to rotate the left hand towards right as I get closer to the C in the four-lined octave?

I'd think keeping the weight on the side you are leaning towards is the best. It just seems natural. It seems that shifting the weight to the other side will cause undo stretching and tension in the back, because you are trying to purposefully shift the weight from where the body wants it. As you described, getting the elbow squished into the body as we play can't be too good. Don't we need to keep that space open ? For me, how you describe doing that is right: keeping the elbow out, so the hand/arm is all in line. I was watching a few pianists on youtube and all the good ones looked like they were doing just as you said. Bob T

"I'd think keeping the weight on the side you are leaning towards is the best. It just seems natural." I'm not really sure at the moment. Often the natural instinct is far from the most effective. I'm just wondering if going with what seems "natural" is slightly superficial way of looking at it. I don't mean for that to sound rude- and I stress that I would still have been looking at it exactly the same way myself had I never done that particular Feldenkrais exercise. However, I'm really wondering now whether the most obvious is necessarily the best- or whether challenging the instincts can sometimes be of value. One thing I tried was two hand scales/arpeggios over four octaves, with the weight starting on the right buttock and transferring to the left in the middle- so it's always the opposite of what is expected. While I think it's a worthwhile exercise, I think it's altogether too bizarre to do that in a normal situation. However, with op. 10 no. 1, I've been trying keeping my weight on the left buttock while going to the top. Strangely enough, it seems to be very effective there- rather than if I follow across in a big way (although being tall may be a big issue here). I should stress that I don't mean I'm not leaning to the right at all. It's likely that I lean a bit less this way, but what I mean is that I feel support on the opposite side to that which I lean in- not that I tilt the spine in the opposite direction. "It seems that shifting the weight to the other side will cause undo stretching and tension in the back, because you are trying to purposefully shift the weight from where the body wants it." Maybe in some cases, but the Feldenkrais exercise actually shows a situation where you balance better this way. I'm still very much undecided about how often this might be favourable in piano playing, but I am pretty sure that there are some situations where going against the obvious has some value. "As you described, getting the elbow squished into the body as we play can't be too good. Don't we need to keep that space open ? For me, how you describe doing that is right: keeping the elbow out, so the hand/arm is all in line." Yeah, this has been very important for me. I realised that I need to think of it as coming in by letting go of the muscles that open the space- rather than of actively pulling the arm back in. If I still think "out" while coming in, it stops me trapping the arm against my torso.

I have been experimenting with leaning and shifting weight since I found this thread more than two weeks ago. Testing sitting on and off the piano, doing it standing and lying down, and have come to the conclusion that these exercises are only meaningful in the context of extensive ATM Feldenkreis practice. I have just started with Feldenkreis, but have practiced similar things in Indian, Chinese and Tibetan traditions for 30 years. I think that the more experience you have, the more effective and useful will this exercise be. For me the exercise have been extremely useful, and I can now have a level of enjoyment at the piano that is beyond anything I had thought possible. That my playing has improved considerably, is a nice side effect. I dont think I should go into any details about my own experience, since it is best to try out things in a way that suits you best. There is no right or wrong way to do these things, just a process of learning. I think one can thank Alan Fraser for the terrific idea of using ATM in the context of piano playing.

I explored this in an Alexander technique lesson last week. What I noticed was a sense of openness along my left side (if I'm leaning to the right) and far more length along my spine than if I distributed the weight the habitual way. I haven't used it at the piano yet, but I imagine it will provide an interesting learning experience.

This thread is a wonderful example of just how hard it is to explain certain simple things so that they are clearly understood. I remember when I first did the kind of ATM Andrew mentions in the first post, I had the same problem you are all having now! The underlying idea is very simple: in sitting, when you lean in any direction, your body wants to fall to that side because its center of gravity has been pulled off center. In order to counteract that tendency, you must curve the upper part of your body back in the other direction, towards the middle. The easiest, most practical way to do this is bend the head to the other side. Thus: Rocking your pelvis backwards, let your head fall forward; your sternum slumps. Rocking your pelvis forward, lift your head (and sternum) up and back. Rocking your pelvis to the right (to shift your weight onto your right buttock), lean your head toward your left shoulder. Rocking your pelvis to the left (to shift your weight onto your left buttock), lean your head toward your right shoulder. Try this last now: lean to the left as if you want to play some notes deep down in the bass. To keep yourself from falling over, simply lean your head to the right, which curves the upper part of your body back to the right as well. The further you lean left, the more you curve your upper torso back to the right. Your body is perched on your left buttock. And this automatically creates the greater sense of space between left arm and torso that Andrew spoke about at the beginning. Try this now, and then tell me: have I given a simple and concise enough explanation to clear up the confusion of this thread, or not? Good luck! AFF

Try this now, and then tell me: have I given a simple and concise enough explanation to clear up the confusion of this thread, or not? Yes, thanks. That makes a lot of sense. It allows plenty of movement while still feeling relatively central. One thing I'm finding in general, regarding these, issues is that my body has an extremely strong tendency to take the majority of its support on the left side. It tends to feel somehow "grounded" in that side (which also notice very strongly when lying on floor in Feldenkrais exercises, including at the shoulders). Does anyone else have the same thing? I'm suspecting it may be related to pedalling.