Weak 4th And 5th Fingers

I just received the DVD yesterday and I am very excited to start working. I have a problem of unevenness with my 4th and 5th fingers whenever the tempo gets to high. I am a beginner adult and I am now working on a piece that has 3-4-5 fingering in quick succession and and I either play the 5th before the 4th or play them together. After watching the DVD I understand that my sense of structure with these fingers is not there yet. So I am trying to see what exercises might help. 1) Overholding 2) Legato walking 3) "Breathing wrist" - lifting the wrist as the finger goes up and gradually dropping it when the finger drops, eventually playing a few notes as the wrist drops. 4) Rotation on every note There is a part in the "overholding" section of the DVD where Alan specifically mentions a problem with unevenness and says "this exercise will show you where the problem is and will also give you the solution". So I want to make sure I understand the solution - practice the above 4 exercises on the 345 fingers, starting very slowly, gradually increasing speed? Thanks in advance for all your replies Zack

I meant that when you overhold as many notes as possible, you FEEL and NOTICE much more clearly, perhaps for the first time, exactly where your arch structure is collapsing, where it is failing to provide support. The hidden, underlying reason for the unevenness is brought to light. The uneven sound and the sense of collapse become linked in your perception. This is the first step in learning to inhibit that collapse. And because overholding DOES offer such a secure sense of support, you are already much more capable of inhibiting that collapse, of RESTORING the support where needed. The sense of stability from the "strong" fingers "bleeds" into the "weak" fingers of the passage and strengthens them. So do NOT practice the passages in question only overholding 3, 4 & 5! Instead, overhold 1 & 2 3, 4 & 5 how to achieve the same security. Let the sense of capability offered by 1 & 2 "bleed" into 3, 4 & 5. I hope this is clearer now. In movie making they always want fewer words, so it is nice to have the chance here to flesh things out a bit.... AFF

Thanks Alan, This is pretty much what I thought from the movie - it's nice to get a direct confirmation from you. I have been practising it for a week and I already feel more secure. In movie making they always want fewer words, so it is nice to have the chance here to flesh things out a bit.... In my opinion, it makes sense for a fiction film, but not for an instructional one. Personally, I would have preferred if the movie was 3 times longer and 3 times more detailed, even if it meant that it had to cost more. In any case it's nice to have this forum for clarification. Thanks a lot for your help Zack

I hope eventually to build up a video library of more detailed analyses of all these issues, but it takes time!!! AFF

That will be the happiest day of my life Alan!!!

So do NOT practice the passages in question only overholding 3, 4 & 5! Instead, overhold 1 & 2 3, 4 & 5 how to achieve the same security. Let the sense of capability offered by 1 & 2 "bleed" into 3, 4 & 5. I hope this is clearer now. AFF I just watched this part of the movie again and it occurred to me that there are 2 different ways to practise overholding: 1) all 5 finger press into all the keys first. Then the arm comes up and only 1 finger comes up. The arm goes down and the finger plays. All 5 fingers are down again. The arm comes up again and the next finger comes up and so on. 2) Start with all fingers resting on the keys and not pressing in. Play each note until eventually all fingers are pressing the keys. Suppose the passage in question is C-D-E-F-G-E C-D-E-F-G-E ... This pattern gives me difficulty at high speeds with fingers 3-4-5 playeing E-F-G-E. Using method 1 I always keep either 4 or 5 fingers pressing on the keys and only lift the finger that needs to play. Using method 2 I would start with the thumb on C, drop all fingers until I reach the G, and the raise all fingers except 5, play E with 3, and C 1 and again lift all fingers expect the thumb. I tried to look carefully at the 5 finger example Alan shows in the film and I think he is using method 1 (lift 1 finger only at all times) during slow playing, but when he started playing a few notes with each arm motion I could notice some keys coming up simultaneously - meaning there weren't 4 fingers pressing at all times. Keeping 4 fingers on the keys at all times makes it necessary to do a lot of individual finger lifting which is especially difficult with finger 4 and tension quickly builds up. It might just mean I need to practise much more slowly until I find the correct movement that will eliminate the tension. So I hope Alan or others who have successfully used overholding can clarify this point - which way is "correct" or better to practise? Zack

The goal of overholding is to develop finger independence. This means that any finger can be lifted or depressed without that action interfering with another, often different action in any of the other fingers. So if you still experience tension, it means the ability hasn't been fully learned yet. Method 1 aims to help the development of that ability - to cultivate that learning. Method 2 is more for integrating the ability once it has been more or less installed. The less you use pressure to keep the other keys down in method 1, and the more you use a subtle effort, the further you'll get in developing this ability. Does this answer your question? AFF

Thanks Alan, This answers my question exactly. I will focus on method 1. I still need to practise overholding and emphasize a relaxed tension free movement. I think part of the problem is that I try to practise too much. My piano teacher suggested that I stop as soon as I feel slight tension and try again later after the hand has been given the chance to rest. Zack