To Stand or Not To Stand

None of my teachers ever talked about armweight. At the most they talked about being relaxed in shoulders and arms.I always found that difficult to implement and had a feeling that something was missing. So a paradoxal effect of watching Alan's DVD was that I started to think about armweight and did some research and tried to integrate it.The debate on this sight has been really great in that regard. It's like I've been moving in a circle. Alan's remark on Hoffman that it's not armweight it's just movement and the knowledege that Hoffman advocated pure finger-playing made me think. One thing I have understood and been able to implement fully-I think- is that the constitution of the hand/wrist/arm is such that you can in fact more or less play with your fingers only- with the right use of the lumbricals your wrist and arm can be "disconnected". That is what they ment with "keep your shoulders and arm relaxed". simple anatomy confirms that this is possible. I beleive purifying this concept is the way to play the piano with the same ease as Tatum. Probably it takes some considerable time before the lumbricals can meet the requirements.And that's probably why constant practising is required they lose their strength quickly. Paradoxally it might be possible?? that involving your arm/shoulder to anything else than beeing a loose slave to the pad/finger/hand might have the opposite effect that is "steeling" power from the hand and thus create a feeling of powerlessness. If you think arm/shoulder in a difficult passage the arm tenses the shoulder tenese and you loose the grip. What you need in these situations is a kind of attitude of total disdain "killing" all activity in arm and shoulder. Scientifically what I describe above is of course non-sense but considering the complexity of the task I beleive the mind needs simple "ideas" that makes things functioning. If Alan makes a new DVD I think this stuff about armweight could go it's to infected.And describing something "negatively" is maybe not so wise pedagogically.Like telling a golfer not to avoid a bunker.Sure way to find the ball in the bunker...

Thinking about this is actually proving to be very productive. I've been starting to think it actually depends entirely on the basic style of finger action used. In the past I had conceived the chain idea around a pure "pull". When pulling, failure to provide adequate arm release against reaction forces guarantees the wrist being pulled forward and up out of alignment. There's no question that the arm could just strive for lightness yet retain alignment. HOWEVER- what I had never explored is the finger extension that aims slightly forwards (uncurling the last two segments)- meaning that the reaction force pushes BACK through the wrist. This type of action actually helps to straighten everything and inspires any stiffnesses to be released. This is something I had scarcely employed at all before some recent lessons with Alan- and when I had previously done so it had involved direct hits into the keybed that put me off and caused stiffness. I think that tiny forward element to the push is a key element that I had always missed. Anyway, on the surface this sounds like a contradiction to the chain idea altogether- which I had based on pure finger pulls. However, sending the reaction force in the opposite direction makes the chain idea work even better! The finger still forms a point of connection from which the arm can hang very freely and it actively inspires release of stiffness. I'm going to write a post soon about both qualities of finger action- and how to set the arm up so it can perform its passive role properly without interference. Developing each makes the other quality easier, in my experience. Anyway, coming back to the light arm idea- I'm still not convinced this would work for me as a universal mindset. However, I'm now understanding how it can work, in tandem with those actions that are based on extreme finger extension rather than solely on a pull. The more pronounced this action is, the more it involves the weight of the hand automatically (like when extending the knees to press the feet into the floor from a hanging rope automatically brings in the body's weight). To try to disconnect the hand's weight from the arm in an intense finger "pull" would be totally futile. However, in a push, I am seeing how the weight of hand basically involves itself (provided the fingers extend far enough) and provides weight for stabilisation- whether you consider the weight or not. The role of the arm would still be far from zero, but I can see how it would subjectively (or perhaps even literally in soft dynamics) be felt to rely on the inherent existence of the hand's weight rather on than an obvious relation to the whole arm's weight. Basically, the finger action itself is a trigger that automatically involves the role of weight. Anyway, I'm not sure if that comes across very clearly or sounds like a load of meaningless complexity. However, I've already been working on a simple means of clarifying various distinctions between how finger push/pulls relate to the arm as a whole. This realisation has now given me a lot of things to add to that. To put it concisely, the major point is this: I think that realising this has made sense of a lot of things- including the idea of the ultra lightened arm that remains perfectly stable. I think that anyone who uses pure pulls alone will have a very hard time and likely become very stiff- unless they develop very sensitive balance between arm release and the reaction that pulls at the wrist. However, I think that pianists who employ straightening in the last two joints are much more likely to be able to isolate focus on the hand without causing a stiff arm. I believe that a seemingly miniscule difference in the action accounts for a huge difference in the role of the arm..

"Paradoxally it might be possible?? that involving your arm/shoulder to anything else than beeing a loose slave to the pad/finger/hand might have the opposite effect that is "steeling" power from the hand and thus create a feeling of powerlessness. If you think arm/shoulder in a difficult passage the arm tenses the shoulder tenese and you loose the grip. What you need in these situations is a kind of attitude of total disdain "killing" all activity in arm and shoulder." This would be a major paradox though. If the whole arm were devoid of activity, gravity would want to slide if off the piano and the hand would have to work in balance with that- meaning it would in no way be decoupled from the arm. To make the arm seem to be uninvolved, it has to be doing something in the right way. I think this is my problem with the "weightless" arm idea. If you know the means to make that seem to happen then you're fine. However, I think it takes a lot of preparation before you can get to the stage where you can just feel as if it requires nothing to suspend the arm well, other than to imagine it is weightless. This is one of the biggest reasons for my skepticism about the mindset as a full-time intent. However light you want to feel, there's a means that needs to be acquired to make that happen- and it isn't guaranteed to happen automatically.

I see what you mean and I agree pushing the finger (like Gekic) is a sine qua non.But you say that pulling inevitably forces your wrist upwards? I'd say yes if you want to but not necessarily. The basic technique is a sort of grasping I've started to practise a kind of stacattograsping on every key in eg a scale.Then you really feel the grasping part and different degrees of lumbrical activity.I have the feeling now that the stronger the lumbricals the more you can relax.Strong is the probably the wrong word because most people have the strength it's more a developpement of neural connections.Maybe that's why you have to start early in life (or eat a hell of a lot of omega three). Of course I know, like I wrote, that a disconnected arm and shoulder is scientifically nonsense-and I think that's the complex part you're trying to research on. What I'm saying is that imaging that all emanates from the fingerpad the grasping and the lumbrical activity, moving the brain so to speak to the fingerpad is a sine qua non-at least for me to be able to relax arm and shoulder. This feel of powerlessness that we all have is partly caused by shouldertensionarmtension and the only way to get rid of it is to play more with the fingers more grasping and that goes for chords octaves dubblethirds.Many Liszt passages are impossible to play otherwise. I lately made an experiment with a pianist friend. He watched me play and while playing with different kinds of technique he was to tell me which sounded best and which looked most relaxed.When I used an extreme finger/grasping technique keeping the shoulders on a maximum relax that was the optimum (for him) thats's Askenazy he said. A pretty strange feeling but that's what I'm working on now.

By the way that's why I beleive the Taubmann approach might work to a certain degree these rotational/keybedding exercises in and out etc forces you to use the lumbricals and that takes away strain from other parts and thus reduce tendonitis tunnelsyndrom etc. Just a reflection.

"But you say that pulling inevitably forces your wrist upwards? I'd say yes if you want to but not necessarily." Sure- it's not guaranteed to happen. My point was about how you can the pull that wants to do that. Assuming we don't go down the generic stiffness road, it requires the upper arm to be pulling back at the elbow, which in turn pulls back at the wrist (whether this is done merely by gravity or by a small additional pull) to keep things taut and aligned. Also, I should add that the starting height of the wrist is an issue. If the wrist starts below the knuckles, it gets tugged forwards but not necessarily upwards. However, if it starts higher than the knuckles, it's a given that the wrist is pulled both forwards and upwards unless something balances the pull. I believe this is what typically happens in my right wrist- it goes up a little to start with and then ends up spiralling further and further out of alignment. By that time, the more my fingers pull the worse it gets. Either you have to stop completely and hit the reset button or involve some extension of the finger to straighten the wrist out. "The basic technique is a sort of grasping I've started to practise a kind of stacattograsping on every key in eg a scale.Then you really feel the grasping part and different degrees of lumbrical activity." Sure, that makes sense. I think staccato is one the places where the wrist is least likely to get forced into an extreme because the gaps between notes give a chance for things to reset. In staccato, I'd even say it might be a good idea to start with a slightly raised wrist- to help to avoid overly direct impacts. There's much less danger of it spiralling out of control of than in legato. "Of course I know, like I wrote, that a disconnected arm and shoulder is scientifically nonsense-and I think that's the complex part you're trying to research on. What I'm saying is that imaging that all emanates from the fingerpad the grasping and the lumbrical activity," The thing I'm not convinced about is the concept of striving for "grasping" in this approach. I'm very skeptical as to whether they can be compatible- unless the arm has acquired advanced reflexes that occur of their own accord. If I think of grasping, I use the kind of pull that must be balanced by involving the arm in a very obvious way or there is disaster. Without the arm felt to be pulling the wrist straight I'm either going to get locked into old-fashioned stiff arm finger-isolation, or my wrist is pulled way out of line. However, if I use the finger extension approach (not necessarily in an obviously visible way) I can perceive it almost as if the hand were a totally separate entity. It's only when I work this way that I can perceive it in the way Alan's describes. This does still involve the same path of movement from the knuckle itself but I cannot perceive it as a "grasp" that feels anything like pure knuckle pull from a flat finger. This may be where the two different things overlap though. It may well be that purer pulling develops strength that carries across into the extension movement with less obvious effort. The knuckle certainly travels in a similar path. I'll see if I can illustrate these issues with diagrams and videos sometime, to make the logic totally clear.

Incidentally, I was going through the Craft of Piano book again yesterday and was able to understand it in a completely different light, since I've had the extension actions in mind. I feel as if I had got aspects of the ideas before but hadn't really understood or experienced it fully "from the inside". I'd always found the high wrist rather puzzling, for the Tai Chi walking exercise. However with the extension actions in mind I am now seeing how it's the simplest place to develop the sensations of pushing yourself lightly away- assuming your finger performs the right basic activity. It seems very obvious to me now, but I want to attempt a truly "idiot-proof" explanation of exactly what is involved in the most basic finger "pushing" and "pulling" actions. I think missing out on exactly what goes into both of these two barest of foundation blocks had placed a big limit on what I was able to get out of certain aspects. I think that the earlier you can develop both a conscious understanding and physical "feel" that includes (yet differentiates) BOTH of the two fundamental actions (in a way that contacts the keybed confidently yet without impact), the easier it is for everything else to start falling into place. I'm convinced now that my wrist problems are basically caused by not having equal access to both of the key building blocks.

First of all, you will remember that in the first lesson I never said "release the arm weight only a little bit" and in the second lesson I never said, "now release it more." I am really glad you posted this because now I know the background commands you were giving yourself to succeed in my direction - that's important! To my mind, I taught you to use a lot LESS arm weight in the passages of the E flat. Your fingers are now working so vigorously that they cannot behave lazily, they can no longer allow the arm's weight to impinge on their structure and function. Reach out to open a kitchen cabinet - how does your arm's weight participate in this movement? Verily verily I say unto you, we are totally screwed up and obsessed with this arm weight business! Alan, that is very interesting and I will continue to try. It is clear that something different is happening for me due to your help, and that is very persuasive even if I don't understand all of it today. Thank you for your very kind words of encouragement. I appreciate your acknowledgement of the sincerity and seriousness of my endeavor. just arrived in the mail two days ago. My order came fast! It is evident that my question in this thread pertains to the first two points of your "Plan of Action" that you define in Chapter 1: 1. standing on the keyboard, 2. 'floating' hummingbird-style above the keyboard, What was so interesting for me in my first lesson with you was the sensation I experienced when floating and being able to gauge my work with the keys through feeling rather than calculation. I'm also a social tango dancer, and partner dancing is similar. One strives to connect and in so doing, the dancers harmonize and adjust simply by feeling it. It never occurred to me to attempt such a thing at the keyboard. The "background commands" you referred to came from my reading of Matthay's , the only other treatise I ever gave serious consideration to. I don't rule out the possibility there is something I could have understood better from that book, but that is where my sense of arm suspension and release came from. I'm going to set that aside for the moment and focus on the message you are sharing with me. I am working to translate the perceptions I have experienced in the G-Flat Major Impromptu into other contexts as you guided me. You are certainly right to observe in , "You will be confused"(!) However, your reply in this thread gives me more to consider and I also look forward to working through all of the exercises in your book and exploring other new perceptions at the keyboard. Thank you for helping me so much in finding new possibilities and pleasure in my music making. Jai Jeffryes

I am slowly formulating my thoughts about this phenomenon, the background conceptual or verbal commands we are taught to give ourselves as opposed to the act of doing something... Not ready to set them down yet but I will eventually. My own teacher, Phil Cohen told me I know far too much, I've taught it far too often, and I think about it far too much when I play... maybe that's one reason I am saying similar things to some of my students... In all my writing I try to avoid describing things that may well be so, if, by doing so, I risk evoking a thought process in the reader that will not be productive for them. My language is oriented towards "doing," and that's my beef with Andrew and the other arm weight people - what they say influences people to act in ways that are not useful to them... Well, it's late here, I'll write more another time... Thanks for responding to this thread! AFF

My language is oriented towards "doing," and that's my beef with Andrew and the other arm weight people - what they say influences people to act in ways that are not useful to them... Really, I'm not any kind of an "arm-weight" person. My interest lies primarily in the nature of achieving sustainable balance- not in the theory (which is solely a means to an end). The practical results were where problem with the idea came about. When using finger pulls (rather than the style of extension that I have only recently discovered), conceiving of a "floating arm" has simply never worked. It would go all over the place! This caused my skepticism- not detached theory. You can see here (notably at around 4.30) just how much my wrist was getting tugged around when I used vigorous finger pulls. The harder the fingers were activating, the more my wrist was getting tugged out of alignment: Basically, the intention of both a light arm and vigorous finger pulls were totally at odds with each other. However, understanding this exclusively in relation to the differing style of finger extension that I've been working at has now allowed me to understand (and indeed experience) how this can work. Particularly on my digital piano, it's always been hard to keep the fingers stable but I'm finding that I can achieve lightness without feeling like I'm making superficial or poorly balanced contact. From here the more my fingers activate, the better aligned my wrist stays and the more balanced everything is. Previously, the more they activated the more a truly hovering arm would have the wrist pulled straight up. It literally reverses the nature of the passive response altogether! I think this is something of overwhelming importance. The means of balancing the arm is spectacularly different, based on this (seemingly tiny yet truly massive) change to the way the fingers are directed. Understanding the specifics of how the fingers have to behave for this to be implemented is now making total sense of what had baffled me before. When the finger acts in just a very slightly different way ("slight" as viewed from the outside), it completely changes the way else balances up. I had to learn exactly how to direct the finger motions and stick to such actions, before I could start employing the consistently hovering arm. Now that's fallen into place, this is working superbly!