This site's review of Taubman Approach

If memory serves (it's been a long time and I don't have my score with me), it was something like LH: 4321 on Gb Bb Eb F followed by 4321 on F Bb Db Eb, in a very fast tempo. As I recall, I changed the fingering to 4212, which worked just fine in performance. Now, you *can* play stretchy intervals if you can get the arm to carry the fingers along and eliminate the harmful stretching, but in this case the tempo was much too fast for that. In any case my teacher, on the faculty of a major US music school, didn't understand the potential for injury, which a Taubman teacher would have seen immediately. Thanks, I'll try this out at the piano. Sure, but at what other costs? I wouldn't ever allow anyone to ban me from legato octaves, for instance- simply because Taubman was paranoid about something that serves a musical end and which I've learned to do just fine. You say she was paranoid about it (using 3 and 4 on octaves), without knowing the experiences and reasoning that led her to her recommendation (to use 5 generally, but not always). Since I don't have direct access to that experience, the best way to understand the whys and wherefores would be to ask someone like Bloomfield or Edna Golandsky directly; then you'd be in a position to make an intelligent judgment concerning the extent to which the experience and reasoning justify the conclusion. The Taubman approach is not something that Taubman dreamed up on a Sunday afternoon, it's the result of tens of thousands of hours of observation and experimentation in the studio, by Taubman and later her students, and it continues to evolve. I want to get my pianistic wisdom from any source I can: Taubman, Fraser, Fink, whomever. If Alan makes a recommendation that doesn't make sense to me, I'll want to find out the experiences and reasoning that led him to his conclusion, rather than just deciding that he's a kook. I'd love to hear a discussion between Alan and, say, Golandsky on matters of technique. We could all learn from such a dialogue. For what you describe, I'd have no problem with changing the fingering (which doesn't mean cheating on a perfectly manageable musical detail, like the example the thread is about). However, I would concerned by the underlying reason why it caused strain and I'd wonder whether your playing still suffers problems. I can't envision any tempo in which I wouldn't be able to use arm movement to avoid stress there. In such a scenario, even if I changed fingering for the performance, I wouldn't be willing to walk away from that until I'd got to the bottom of why it was strenuous. The fingers would have to move well mind- as pushing arm impulse through any single finger would bog it down. This is one of the areas where the refusal to deal with safe (but truly meaningful) finger technique can make Taubman hugely limited. But I couldn't possibly strain without digging downwards, thus causing the limitation. The fact remains that following the recommendation of my teacher (who had no use for Taubman) resulted in an injury because of the strain of stretching fingers apart, and a Taubman-like refingering resolved the problem just fine, through four performances of the work. Whether the Taubman approach imposes unnecessary limitations is a lengthy discussion that really needs to be done with the discussants sitting at a piano and demonstrating. You might want to listen to recordings of Ilya Itin, who has been studying with Golandsky for years, and see if you can hear any technical limitations. Anyway, I'll try to run your (and Alan's) ideas past a Taubman teacher when I get a chance, and see what they say.

Since I mentioned Ilya Itin, I thought I should post a link to one of his recent performances: He first became acquainted with the Taubman approach in 1999, and as I mentioned he has been studying with Golandsky for some years. He is also on the faculty of the Golandsky Institute.

The fact remains that following the recommendation of my teacher (who had no use for Taubman) resulted in an injury because of the strain of stretching fingers apart, and a Taubman-like refingering resolved the problem just fine, through four performances of the work. Whether the Taubman approach imposes unnecessary limitations is a lengthy discussion that really needs to be done with the discussants sitting at a piano and demonstrating. You might want to listen to recordings of Ilya Itin, who has been studying with Golandsky for years, and see if you can hear any technical limitations. Anyway, I'll try to run your (and Alan's) ideas past a Taubman teacher when I get a chance, and see what they say. Sure, I don't disagree that it was better than forcing on through. Rather, I'm comparing problem avoidance with an approach geared towards tackling problems with a sensible attitude. Busoni spoke of fingerings which should definitely be practised, compared to easier fingerings which are fine for the concert. I'd definitely include that in this bit. There are loads of passages which have seemed inately awkward to me in the past- where the only problem was the dependence on downforce from the arm. Since learning to stand out of the keys, the sense of stretching has vanished. Taubman may be able to help you avoid the stretches, but it isn't tackling the underlying problem (which will come through in plenty of other less obvious ways) in general. I realised a few years ago that my hands aren't anywhere near flexible enough- specifically because I've depended too much on moving the whole arm for realignments- rather than find a synthesis between safely opening up the hand and also progressing with the arm. It's a fundamental for playing op 10 no 1, to have a two-way street. I'd be very interested in any reports on views from teachers, but I know that Taubman is generally very insular- hence the cultish reputation. They refuse to allow ANY technical discussion on their forearms (EDIT- I mean't "forums") and I'm not aware of anything online where a Taubman teacher engages in honest and meaningful discussion with alternatives. It seems to me that they have their bible and that they're keen to casually write off everything that contradicts it. I've never seen any obvious evidence that the methods are evolving- rather than being treated as the beginning and (above all) the end of understanding technique. I sincerely hope I'm wrong and that plenty of teachers are being more intelligent than this, but I've seen very little evidence of it within online resources. If they are willing to engage on this point, I'd very much like to hear what they say. Also, I started a thread with a table on technical problems, that I believe explains the nature of how Taubman can simultaneously help and also set up something of a dead end. I'd be interested if you have any thoughts on that.

Regarding Itin, he already won the Leeds prize, so he wasn't short of finger technique before approaching the method. For me, he's a very good musician but there seems to be a slight disconnect between finger and arm. He does seem a little stuck between figuring out whether he's trying to relax his hand or fix it to pass on arm impulse. To me, it looks like he overmoves just slightly- breaking the simplest connection of finger and arm. He largely manages this in a very good way, but something about his phrasing doesn't always sound continuous to me (like part of one bigger thread). I feel as if the sense of disconnect from the keys slightly compromises his musical ideas. I think with a simpler style of physical continuity, he could perhaps play even better still. Compare to Misha Dacic This is real simplicity of poise. He's totally connected through the phrase- not by weighing the arm down hard on to the finger but by being able to open his hand quite so actively.

Hi, I haven't managed to read this entire exchange but I got through the first several posts. I think we could clear up a lot of the issue by understanding that the injury was not from the stretch, it was from faulty technique which made the stretch untenable. You can stretch these intervals easily, for instance, if your arch isn't collapsing uncontrollably and disempowering your hand. I have recently met Maria del Pico Taylor at the ISME conference in Glasgow and we had a fine exchange. I have a clearer understanding of the Taubman technique now and will be updating Yankovitch's review very soon. However, the issue of stretching still stands as in the review. Respectfully yours, AFF