Scales And Repeated Notes

hi there. i have some problems with scales involving black keys, Bb minor harmonic for instance. my question is about hand positioning. is it more efficient to move the hand "forward"(towards the point where the keys and the body of the piano join)only when that particular black key needs to pe pressed(Bb with the 4th finger RH) or permanently position the hand nearer the body of the piano during the playing of that scale? i tried the 2nd method but when i press A with the 3rd finger, especially in the RH, the adjacent 2 black keys are accidentaly pressed. i have very slim fingers but it seems impossible to press A witout involving the adjacent black keys. my second problem is about repeated notes with the same finger. at fast tempos there is no problem when legato playing is needed. but how can i make, for instance, E2 to sound without interuption when it is played multiple times in a measure with the same finger and legato touch is needed? the tempo is...let's say....40 bpm or something like that. of course i thought about using the pedal but i guess that's a method of cheating my last question is about smooth finger passing when the next note needs to be played with the same finger(like scales in double thirds or if the hand "position" needs to be shifted one key to the right or to the left). do you "collapse" the finger on the next key in order to smoothen the transfer?

hi there. i have some problems with scales involving black keys, Bb minor harmonic for instance. my question is about hand positioning. is it more efficient to move the hand "forward"(towards the point where the keys and the body of the piano join)only when that particular black key needs to pe pressed(Bb with the 4th finger RH) or permanently position the hand nearer the body of the piano during the playing of that scale? i tried the 2nd method but when i press A with the 3rd finger, especially in the RH, the adjacent 2 black keys are accidentaly pressed. i have very slim fingers but it seems impossible to press A witout involving the adjacent black keys. my second problem is about repeated notes with the same finger. at fast tempos there is no problem when legato playing is needed. but how can i make, for instance, E2 to sound without interuption when it is played multiple times in a measure with the same finger and legato touch is needed? the tempo is...let's say....40 bpm or something like that. of course i thought about using the pedal but i guess that's a method of cheating my last question is about smooth finger passing when the next note needs to be played with the same finger(like scales in double thirds or if the hand "position" needs to be shifted one key to the right or to the left). do you "collapse" the finger on the next key in order to smoothen the transfer? I'd always treat any scale as two hand positions that extend from the two thumbs. At speeds, there's simply no time to make adjustments in and out of the keys. I'd be very surprised if you can't find a way of getting your fingers between the black notes. Find the two positions and hold down all the notes, to get the feel of the two shapes that are required. I don't see any great sense in which using the pedal would be cheating in the instance you describe. If you don't want much resonance, you could possibly still use a tiny instant of pedal a split-second before the release. Alternatively, if you cannot use the pedal for some good reason, changing fingers makes it far easier to minimise the gap.

ok thank you very much. i was only thinking if there is a technical(hand touch) way of reducing or totally removing that gap at low speeds.

I don't think there's a whole lot that can be said, except that you need to find exactly how far the key needs to be raised before the dampers will act. Practise lifting the key extremely slowly (literally at least a second from bottom to top). I'd do this two ways- once from the knuckle alone (but perhaps resting on another finger at the same time, to maintain support) and also entirely from the arm (with a firm, supportive finger). Once you know exactly how far the key needs to be lifted and can sense exactly how far you want to lift, you shouldn't have any real problem- provided that your hand is working well. It's also very good for the sense of awareness to practise feeling how the key pushes against your finger, rather than simply to release it in an instantaneous movement. On a grand piano, you don't actually need to lift the key until the sound stops before you can redepress it, btw. However, it's still important to know exactly how far the key can be lifted without the dampers acting. There's less control over the strike, if the key has barely started to be raised before you rehit. If it's still a problem, it's probably a sign of excessive slack in the finger/hand (or possibly unwanted tensions further up) causing inconsistency in the movement. If your hand isn't stable enough to get it working still, I'd follow Alan's general exercises rather than worry about the issue specifically (is there actually a particular piece you're playing where you need to do this?). They should make a notable difference to all kinds of issues, over time.

i guess that is the same on digital piano right? or you were thinking that i wasn't using a keyboard with hammer keys? i am a beginner so the problem will most probably be solved with practice and time i hope.... i don't have this problem on a particular piece. there are many(haydn's little sonatina or the first etudes from czerny's op. 823). i like to work on the details and make the sound as smooth and flowing as possible. that's why i decided to purchase a digital piano. on the semi-weighted keys i previously had it was impossible or very difficult to feel that key weight and damper action point you mentioned. i already started to feel what you were talking about. thanks.

Hi crazy_b76, I'm blessed with a nice grand piano but I do a lot of work on a well balanced digital for various reasons. There is a huge difference among others you'll never reach the same speed in repeating keys. But if you try out for example cziffras fine advice above on a "real" piano and try to understand it's action you'll be able to make great progress on your digital. When using a digital I would advice you to alway's "check" now and then on a good wellbalanced grand piano. Eric

i solved the first problem and now i am able to lift the key little enough to prevent stoping the sound. however if i repress it seems that there isn't enough force(or action?) to produce the note once again. why is this happening? by the way...i have a yamaha p-85 so it's clear enough that the problem is related to my playing not to the piano

I have a clp370 myself, as well as my Bluthner upright. It is possible to restrike a key on the digital, but it simply doesn't function as the 'grand piano action' they claim. I find that although a key can be restruck fully legato, very little sound comes out on the second strike. It's nothing like the double escapement of a grand. Also, on a real action you can physically feel something in the action, at the point of release. You won't get this on any digital piano that I know of. As Eric says, I'd try this on a real piano to get the full feel and then you should know what to aim for on the digital. By the way, I really wouldn't get too bogged down in this. Although heavily 'clipped' notes can be very obvious and are best avoided, there really aren't that many occasions when full legato from a single finger is necessary or hugely desirable. A tiny stop in the sound gives a natural punctuation that would be more effective than full legato at least 95% of the time (at least, in music of the baroque and classical period). In Romantic music, it's almost always the case that such legato is best done with the pedal or finger changes, rather than with a single repeated finger. As long as you don't have 'clipped' notes (if you understand what I mean by that), you have nothing to worry about. I appreciate that you're aiming for a nice flow, but if you worry too much about joins that are both difficult and unnecessary, you may risk breaking the ease of the physical flow.