Pushing vs. pulling

It could if the person is attentive and intelligent enough. Unfortunately we can't count on every reader of Abby Whiteside's book being both of those. But yes it's possible she could evoke in her lessons... Yeah, I'm afraid her book is simply a complete mess. She must have been far better in person. I love the image of "rhythm" as a whole body thing, but the only thing she really conveyed to me was how effortless and fluid the final product should feel. However, I'm definitely going to go back over it now. I'm getting a strong feeling that it might easier to see what she meant now- although I certainly wouldn't ever wish to leave the hand side of things to evolve purely of its own accord.

Incidentally, I'm just wondering about the triceps thing. I was very skeptical of that before- imagining it to be part of a whole arm push that greatly involves the upper arm acting as well as from the elbow- like in the kind of "drive" through a loud chord that would often be used for a loud sound. (although I certainly didn't imagine you meant such an extreme push or movement) However, I'm realising that a certain type of feeling of pulling backwards at the hand (giving the fingers a force to stabilise their natural action against, in natural balance) actually involves straightening at the elbow a little as well. After having spent a lot of time looking at the more neutral style of the arm as a "chain" that simply hangs from support at the shoulder, experimenting with these very slight pulls (sometimes continuously, sometimes just in small bursts) seem to be something of great use. Various Chopin Etudes have been feeling vastly easier over the past few days. Pulling back slightly actively gives the fingers the chance to stabilise even more and is keeping hand extremely still without stiffness. It tightens up the chain even more than simply letting the arm hang, but involves very little effort (except for the hand). The result is extremely stable. I'm just wondering whether perhaps this is actually similar to what you refer to in the tricep? I'm not certain, but I can see how they could possibly be the same thing.

It is. I've got to refine my triceps concept a little. Have I mentioned Paul Wirth's great DVD, Gravity Technique? Unfortunately he doesn't have his own website. He says the triceps and biceps don't do anything. You've gotta just let them hang. And when I try to do as he says, I get great results. to let the upper arm just hang uncovers wrong use of the triceps and biceps that I hadn't been aware of. It's kind of like that subjective thing I talk about - "using arm weight," or "slowing the key down." If I in the way you're describing and the way I describe in both my book (chapter 29) and film (chapter 5-2). Thanks for a further distinction! AFF

It is. I've got to refine my triceps concept a little. Have I mentioned Paul Wirth's great DVD, Gravity Technique? Unfortunately he doesn't have his own website. He says the triceps and biceps don't do anything. You've gotta just let them hang. And when I try to do as he says, I get great results. to let the upper arm just hang uncovers wrong use of the triceps and biceps that I hadn't been aware of. It's kind of like that subjective thing I talk about - "using arm weight," or "slowing the key down." If I in the way you're describing and the way I describe in both my book (chapter 29) and film (chapter 5-2). Thanks for a further distinction! AFF Interesting. I wonder whether it's very similar to what I'm looking at. Does he do the old "fingers only supporting weight rather than actively pulling the keys" routine, or does he treat it as a counterforce for the fingers to operate against?

Incidentally, I'm realising that as long as the upper arm does not push forwards (which would destabilise everything, if attempted over a number of notes, rather than for a single chord) it could still be viewed as a kind of push. If it comes from the elbow, it's probably a matter of opinion whether it's a "pull" or "push". This type of action doesn't have the same destabilising effect as the upper arm push- as long as it starts in the elbow, without the rest of the arm trying to come over the top. As long as I avoid pushing from the upper arm, it's possible to use the arm to press a little more actively in a way that complements the fingers role in pulling at the keys, rather than causing problems. I'm trying to distinguish the difference between "pulling" from the upper arm (which could only be described as a pull) and "pulling" from the elbow (which could also be viewed as a "push"). I think both of those are very useful actions. As long as I can keep the upper arm push out of it (for the vast majority of situations, that is) then it keeps my wrists nicely aligned and comfortable- rather bobbing around, as they used to.

Neither. In his view, the fingers don't support weight, and neither does the arm offer a counterforce for the fingers to act against. If you lay your forearm on the table top and pull with your lumbricals, the action of the fingers is an entity unto itself. If your fingertips are stuck to the surface, the lumbrical pulling action will pull the heel of your hand (and your forearm as well) towards them. If you could lay your forearm on a supporting surface near the keyboard so your fingers could manipulate the keys while the forearm was thus supported, it would be clear that the finger's action is solely to manipulate the key, not to act against some counterforce from above. As I mentioned in the other post parallel to this one, the thumb being rooted in the key creates an internal muscular organization, a hierarchy of latent tonuses, which can continue even when the thumb is no longer rooted, and which empower the functionality of the hand. Here it's the forearm lying on a supporting surface that creates a set of internal muscular organizations that can continue to empower the right work of the fingers when the forearm is not actually supported. Wirth's approach aims to facilitate precisely this organization. In actuality, there IS of course the weight of your arm, the counterforce against which your fingers pull. But it's this other scenario is in effect. My fear is that if you actually talk about counterforces etc, the brain will organize the musculature in this optimal way. Making that perception conscious and overt may actually mislead the brain. Wirth's method is pragmatic: it aims simply to create a neuromotor organization useful to piano playing. Do you see what I'm getting at? AFF

Letting the upperarm out of it is probably a very good idea especially exaggerated horizontal movements. I feel my triceps quite often (which I don't really mind) and trying to get the sensation that you don't use them feels great. On the other hand this thing with muscles is somewhat confusing. The problem is the accumulation of tension- not tension itself. It becomes very obvious in pieces like La Campanella. Another thing I've been discovering lately is that the angle hand/forearm is really crucial and subtle when it comes to effecient grasping. Also the sensation that all is initiated from the fingerpad. There is probably a kind of individual "sweetspot" regarding angles fingerpad-hand-forearm. and I beleive that it also has an impact in determing the height of the bench. That's maybe the reason why some pianists (like me) feel more comfortable sitting low. It's of course individual depending on the hand. Personally I need to keep the wrist moderately low if I want my long third finger to work proparly-my most lazy finger.

On the other hand this thing with muscles is somewhat confusing. The problem is the accumulation of tension - not tension itself. It becomes very obvious in pieces like La Campanella. Another thing I've been discovering lately is that the angle hand/forearm is really crucial and subtle when it comes to effecient grasping. Also the sensation that all is initiated from the fingerpad. There is probably a kind of individual "sweetspot" regarding angles fingerpad-hand-forearm. and I beleive that it also has an impact in determing the height of the bench. That's maybe the reason why some pianists (like me) feel more comfortable sitting low. It's of course individual depending on the hand. Personally I need to keep the wrist moderately low if I want my long third finger to work proparly-my most lazy finger. 1) Latent muscle tonus that facilitates well-organized movement is not the same as accumulated tension! An important distinction! if you are accumulating tension there is a structuro-functional weakness or anomaly somewhere in the fingers-hand that is the underlying cause of the tension build-up. 2) I like your idea of the sweet spot. Yes, indeed! I realized I like sitting low myself because I like the sensation of my fingers "crawling" in the keys... 3) My long 3rd also my laziest finger. Getting the hand into a position where its lumbrical can begin to work is a very cool process. It has a lot to do with getting the thumb in and under to the point where it offers functional and not just structural support... AFF

Thanks:-) I think I see what you mean in 1). I was thinking of the tension in arms eg in la campanella liszt rhaps#6 etc. I feel it's really mental if I'm in the "cool mood" in my kitchen those pieces work fine but under presuure is another thing.Feels like the arms will fall off! Do you have a remedy there? I like the tip to use the thumb to "amplify" functionality thanks it's in your books I just forgot about it. I hope you'll write a book about the thumb that's the tantric part in pianoplaying. I dono but a lot of russian pianists I've seen and known seems to be maniac about the thumb lately I saw Sokolov from a good angle and he momentarily seemed to base his whole technique of thumb-positions. Have you made a recording with your Landowska-Steinway I'm really curious to here that sound?? Best regards

I hate to harp on an old theme here, but your is falling off because your fingers aren't working enough. Go back and find out where you could move them more. Slow down your practice. Often times we intend to do the right finger movement but we "get ahead of ourselves" at speed and the reflexes don't respond to the command on time. In the simplest of terms, it's a question of making sure (A), getting the finger in position, happens before (B), moving it. Fascinating: what do you mean by "tantric?" I would love to hear more on this. Also will take a look at Sokolov, sounds very likely and interesting. A tentative title for my next book: I like the "All Thumbs" part but need help for the rest. Any suggestions? You can hear it a little in the online lessons now available at . Try the two Debussy lessons with Maya, you can get some slight impression of how it sounds although it's recorded on my handycam.... apart from that, you'll just have to be patient! Sorry! AFF