Piano Technique & Chopin Op10 No2

Hi Alan I know this looks like a long one but I hope it doesnt put you off reading it with your busy schudule I've only just discovered your craft of piano techniqe recently and have been reading as many articles as I can with great interest around your methods and others. I can tell you that after my M.A performance in piano I went to a teacher (an active concert pianist and teacher) who introduced me to relaxing techniques. This was about 10yrs ago now. At the time I knew I had to get rid of some habits and gain some good ones. What he taught me was slow and deep practice - the more you play slow the more you press into the keys and that he should not be able to nudge my hand off the piano as that indicated a non solid hand and no central weight. Anyway I did this for 7 months and there were results but I then went into another career for 10 years (performing concerts occasionally and accompaniment couldnt fund my thirst for a piano career and so I went into IT). I still play and perform occasionally but only after a period where I completely looked into pedagogue and piano technique about 5 years ago. I remember reading Gyorgy Sandor "On piano playing" as a student but not really understanding it until I played around with my own hand/arm framework. My answers were never found in books but I remember saying and always have - if I cannot get through Chopin Etude without aching and there are pianists that play the whole of op10 and 025 in recitals there must be a way of relaxing in these pieces. Well as I experimented I came accross arm weight but I have to say I have never used it to just come down on the keys as I found the tone weak and harsh. I know I must be using arm weight to find relaxation pockets in playing the music. Anyway I now get to Op10.no2 because this is the turning point where the research Id done on technique enabled me to relax in something that was impossible to me be before. I think I have always had the arches you talk about and when I started practicing the RH in this piece I had also done the legato you talk about. In fact there are many things I read in your posts that I found out myself 5 years ago and I wish Id have had something then to just clarify I was on the right track. Anyhow I managed to get the first 2 pages nearly up to speed but there are some stretchy moments with the chords in the middle section where it meanders in and out of keys every 2 bars. I cant understand how on the RH I can lightly walk in the RH up and down the keyboard with my hand/arm following the miniscule forward/backward motions over the black and white key positions AND play with 2nd finger & thumb for the momentary chords before springing back into the position where the 4,5 6 fingers align comfortably to play fast when the thumb is and 2nd fingers are relaxed. I say spring because the only way I thought this could be done was to play the chord in and upwards push off to give time to get into the relaxed position for the 3,4,5 fingers to align with the arm to work! I refer to Gyorgy Sandors book where he arrows up over notes to denote the push off. I still cannot get this study up to tempo as it seems that the position for the fingers and the position for the chords contrast with little time to adjust. Ive seen on forums where someone went to a lesson and the teacher told him to drop the hand on the chords. I can see how a downward movement (drop) could enable the hand to get into the position for the semiquaver mini runs in between in the time. In fact it slows me down. This study for me is probably the hardest yet and getting a teacher to play/teach show this etude is not so common. I saw one post on the formum about this etude but can you tell me what Im missing - In summary practicing light 3,45 fingers separately firstly in a legato walking way then speeding up this becomes a more tonal legato (almost legato to allow for light speedy movements). The hand/arm follows the fingers best aligned position so this creates a rhythmical forward/backward motion which is accompanied with the chords that push off the keys to help the forward movement on the ascending chromatic 3,4,5 semiquavers. On the decsending I accent the top note with a push off in the direction of the left to descend. I employ this technique up and down and on the weaving up and down passages. I think the problem is I end up putting more weight on the top fingers but I've tried to do the opposite by distributing some weight on the chords to keep the 3,4,5 fingers free and light. This just seems like the chords become the focus and are brought out more. I really want the eerie rippling effect from the right hand with the chords being a "cheeky" deteached quality to highlight the interesting harmonic changes without the jabbing. The 2 things just seem to oppose the other and although the beginnings of the piece feel comfortable I cannot get through this piece up to speed. Am I on the right track? Many thanks PS I hope the ordered Dvd arrives speedy!!! PPS Who are the teachers in England that teach your method?

I'm not Alan, but the interesting questions in your post sound like ones that you would need to ask a good teacher who is in the same room as you are.

Is there a list of piano teachers who can teach what Alan teachers - i.e are certified practitioners? Thanks Sharon

Good idea! I have studied with Alan for years, and could be a teacher only if I wanted!

There is something in your post that I would venture to comment on, and that is an idea which you refer to several times. Not weight, not arm drop, nor any kind of piano issue at all; but an attitude toward what you have already learned. The attitude goes like this: "I know that I must _______________" (and we may fill in the blank with any important piece of information). Any time you encounter a "must" in piano technique, it is necessary to examine its content carefully, because "must" has the power to shape your entire ability at the instrument.

There is something in your post that I would venture to comment on, and that is an idea which you refer to several times. Not weight, not arm drop, nor any kind of piano issue at all; but an attitude toward what you have already learned. The attitude goes like this: "I know that I must _______________" (and we may fill in the blank with any important piece of information). Any time you encounter a "must" in piano technique, it is necessary to examine its content Hi, I am not sure if understand what are you talking about, if this was about me at all?! Jovan

There is something in your post that I would venture to comment on, and that is an idea which you refer to several times. Not weight, not arm drop, nor any kind of piano issue at all; but an attitude toward what you have already learned. The attitude goes like this: "I know that I must _______________" (and we may fill in the blank with any important piece of information). Any time you encounter a "must" in piano technique, it is necessary to examine its content Hi, I am not sure if understand what are you talking about, if this was about me at all?! JovanHi Jovan No, nothing about you - my comment was about Sharon's original post where she gave details of her approach. Sorry for the confusion.

Hi David I'm not sure know what you mean Can you explain? My attitude towards what I was finding out was that I know that some information that maybe I was missing And that I could find out myself on how things would feel better was a must for me to enable me to freely express my musical thoughts. I discovered relaxation which I expressed in arm weight - this may not be completely the right way to describe my findings on reflexion. thanks

Sharon, I have to apologize. I have re-read your original post, carefully, and I was wrong. You used "must be" to indicate deduction of a likely fact, and I mis-read it by thinking "must be" was referring to an absolute requirement. Sorry for my misunderstanding. I should add that I still don't understand the sentence that contains the magic words as outlined above - in fact I understand it less now than I did before.

About the original question: did you try practicing Op. 10 #2 the way I described in that other post? Because there is an important difference between your description of the r.h. chords and mine. You keep talking about putting weight on them or springing off them, but I fear that both of these may prevent you from playing them skeletally, which is what I recommended. Play them louder than the upper melody, and play them skeletally. It means throwing the thumb & 2nd into their keys so that they STAND UP, and so that the hand stands securely and weightlessly on them just as your pelvis stands on your legs when you are upright. Chopin's original notation of those chords was quarter notes, not 8th notes. Try holding them, it will make it easier for you to figure out what I mean and do it successfully. Let me know how you get on! AFF PS As for teachers who 'teach my method,' unfortunately I don't exactly have people flocking to my door to learn how to do this, and although I have trained many pianists to a very high level, I doubt if any of them are working as I am with their students. The trouble is, none of them have done a complete professional Feldenkrais training, and that experience plus 17 years' post training experience with the Method, PLUS ten years with Phil Cohen, PLUS 20 years with Kemal Gekic, is largely what enables me to do what I do... I have dreams about opening an Institute to train pianist/teachers, but for now that's all they are, dreams....