Technique and methods
19 posts
Started 18 Jan 2017
A
Alanfraserpiano
One of my main points for a long time has been precisely that there are other, better ways of "figuring out if you're adequately relaxed."
In fact, there are ways of playing piano where you don't even to figure out if you're adequately relaxed, because you are totally focused on moving well. Moving is fundamentally different from relaxing.
Try thinking of moving instead of being still - if you move well, you be 'floating.'
I guess I'm saying "Stop putting the cart before the horse."
AFF
A
A pianist
I see what you mean- but some of the things I've realised today really have shocked me. I couldn't believe just how little awareness I had of how my arm naturally behaves when fully released- which had left me totally unaware of many habitual efforts I was drastically overdoing and "holding" on to, in order to balance gravity. One thing I realised today is that when collapsing and sliding off the piano, the hand should naturally want to slump to the outside- with the little finger side rolling down before the hand gets pulled back and off the keys. Any time I've ever done this exercise, my palm has remained face down- due to persistent tensions that I was totally unaware of, even when I thought I was "relaxing" my whole arm! I simply wasn't aware of what was going on in my shoulder at all! Noticing the effort that I was using both to keep the elbow out and stop the forearm rotating has made a huge difference! Now I know what it feels like either to release it completely, or to apply only enough to serve the needed purpose of balancing gravity. I've actually found the experience of willfully releasing it slightl in playing to be a major help in the Bach D major Prelude from WTC bk 1- helping the 5th to get into the keys more easily. Rather than make slight rotation happen, simply letting go of an activity that I can now perceive makes the slight rotation occur of it's own accord.
My point is not about blind intent at relaxation though. It's about realising what true relaxation is, in order to wipe the slate clean- before putting far smaller efforts back in, to achieve the purpose that unnoticed tensions had previously been achieving. Grindea had bizarre fixation on violently slumping, but this about using observation of release in order to put functional actions in. The full relaxation is solely for preliminary observation purposes, not an end in itself.
I agree with this entirely- but I had no idea what some of the necessary movements were until I realised what it was like to completely release the stiffness was stopping my hand from rotating back to the outside. I had to understand the unwanted movement that I need to balance, before I could balance it effectively. Before, I didn't have the slightest idea as to what was being fixed with stiffness. Already I can "float" better when forgetting about gravity again- but I had to improve my understanding of what I was balancing in order to forget about it again. There was a huge gap in my self-perception- caused by a failure to realise that I was fighting against gravity instead of simply balancing it with lesser actions.
Arguably, this is the sort of thing that should already have been understood before a person ever sits at a piano. But even though it should be nothing more than stage 1, I've realised that I simply never went through it before and have been poorer for not noticing these things. I hope the results are going to stick, as I've never been able to play arpeggios with anything even approaching the smoothness and ease I found today.
A
A pianist
I have to say that I've actually been coming back to gravity today, with substantial benefits. I feel I understand rotation idea much more clearly from this. For a while I've been thinking almost exclusively about lining up a "floating" hand and moving the finger perfectly in a two dimensional plane. I think this has been very good for the activity of my fingers. However, I was starting to become fused into that position. I completely lost awareness of both how gravity wants to rotate the hand towards the side of the fifth and the efforts that I was repressing this with.
Today, I've been actively embracing a touch of the "droop" towards the fifth finger side. Having massively improved my fifth finger knuckle's actions recently (from working at the extreme direct line), it still activates well when I allow this to happen. The side of the hand goes down, but the knuckle itself does not droop. The finger's action cancels out the rotation almost entirely- but I feel the intent to allow gravity to pull my forearm around very clearly. The fingers actually move better now, when playing Bach, than when I was trying to align my 5th for a direct line of movement. Also, it makes the shortness of the fifth finger less of an issue.
Anyway, the extremely significant thing I realised today is that this allows massive improvement to ease of scales and arpeggios when ascending in the r.h. (and descending in the left) Due to the slightly indirect line, the reaction actively propels the whole arm up the keyboard, with every single note played! The arm just soars across the keys as if by magic- with absolutely minimal effort. It's almost like a sensation of "falling" sideways- similar to that idea about tilting in running, so as to continually "fall" forwards. I think it's the same illusion- where there's not strictly any falling going on at all, but the slight imbalance allows (and indeed inspires) the fingers to keep propelling the hand onwards rather allow it to actually fall. It creates a flow that the fingers are inspired to maintain. Although I feel a slight sense of "resting" on the keys, the arm moves with far greater ease than when I was trying to "float" over scales and arpeggios. The ones in Pletnev's arrangement of Tchaikovsky Pas de Deux are really starting to fly today!
I'm not throwing out the "floating" idea, but coming back to the gravity issue has been a huge aid. It's not about any nonsense of pretending to make gravity move the keys for me, but noticing the rotational movement that gravity WOULD cause (were the fingers not doing their job) has made for a huge improvement. If I focus too much on floating, I lose sight of the efforts that are creating the position- and stop applying them with any efficiency. I'm finding both situations where I need to release these rotational efforts more and others where I need to bring them in more.
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Alanfraserpiano
This is really great, a really fine use of relaxation. nice discovery and very clearly described, thanks for sharing it with us. And it's an important share, because in another thread I just got through basically saying "Relaxation is BAD," and your post demonstrates how patently untrue that is. relaxation is a tool like any other, and with knowledge and perspicuity we can use it well!
Again I most heartily agree, in toto.
I am really happy about these discoveries and the positive benefits, waittago Andrew!
AFF
A
A pianist
Cheers! Since I came to employ the extension action, the concept of floating has led to tremendous development of the finger activities- so I'm extremely grateful for your persistence about it. The slight releases that I'm now putting back in wouldn't have been meaningful, if I weren't coming from that point. Since I realised the importance of reaching right out from each finger, this mindset has been extremely productive. I think it's just putting some small missing releases back in now.
I feel like I can actually understand the Taubmann illusion now- where rotation seemingly becomes invisible yet is still "felt". In outward scales, it like a permanent sense of imbalance- but one which never actually leads to the hand falling outwards, but which is permanently left teetering on the edge by constant finger movements. When I look at my hand in the mirror while playing the fast scales in the Tchaikovsky/Pletnev, I've never seen it looking more settled. It just looks to move sideways now. The weird thing is that I feel as if I'm allowing gravity to droop it towards the fifth finger side, yet the finger actions never allow this effect to take place. I really feel like I can actually understand where the Taubmann people are coming from, with their subjective explanations. I think I realise what they are feeling now. I hope I'll be able to translate this concept into more objective language (without this nonsense about rotating onto a dead finger, before supposedly reversing the direction for "double rotation")- as I think it can be done relatively concisely.
To put it simply, it's very much like that falling rod idea. If you balance a stick on your hand and aim it slightly forwards, it will fall unless you start running forwards. As long as you do so, it stays balanced. It's the same principle- where by staying in movement, there is a constant imbalance, yet a real "fall" never happens. The ongoing movement means it never occurs. However, the movement is caused by aiming the fingers slighltly off the line of the key. A very slight knuckle slant means that every finger action keeps propelling the arm away from the torso- stopping the forearm drooping any further towards the 5th. It's like a permanent attempt to allow rotation, that never actually occurs, due to the fingers propelling the arm. There's a balance of forces, that explains how intent at rotation can be "felt"- despite never getting a chance to occur.
It's a funny thing, as I know you've moved away from the slant towards fifth finger alignment. Personally, I'm now going in the opposite direction and regularly trying to allow the forearm to release outwards, rather than repress this. However, I think the important thing (that suggests we're probably looking at much the same thing) is that my fingers aren't allowing my old habit of slanting to happen. While I used to have to avoid the droop like the plague (merely to make my fifth finger move into the key at all!), I feel that when I intend to allow it now, my fifth finger moves enough that it never actually occurs. It's just a letting go of the muscles that repress it- but the movement is cancelled by the finger activation. The two are both felt, yet balance each other out. Objectively, I know this is a nonsense- but it feels as if I'm literally sideways with my arm. I've never encountered such a sense of flow behind rapid scales or arpeggios.
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Alanfraserpiano
So what have you just described? for your persistence!
Again, a really perfect description of unstable equilibrium. Perfect because it's .
By the way, I too have returned to the slant down to the fifth finger big time. It's the only way to get your thumb and forefinger fully active, and yes, it only works when it is 'cancelled out' by finger activation.
Thanks once again, Andrew, I am looking forward to seeing how all this looks (and sounds) in Stuttgart.
AFF
A
A pianist
Yes, absolutely, it's a balance that is so fine its only just in a balance at all. I think this is why I still want to come back to gravity occasionally- to make sure that when "floating" I'm aware of the absolute bare minimum to cancel it out- rather than using extra fixations.
Ah, interesting! I think I'm starting to get a lot more clarity on how I want to approach this issue. In order to avoid tipping the balance too much in one direction, I'm doing extremes in both directions. I've been doing a lot of different exercises recently on the most basic unstable equilbrium at the keybed. I think it's important to devote plenty of attention to the "centered" position, where everything moves in one plane, but I've also been experimenting with extreme rotation to both sides. I think each extreme aids the other. Have you seen the Seymour Bernstein film?
I've been experimenting a lot with variants of the exercise at 8 minutes in. It's great for stretch- but also for priming the knuckles, when used in a certain way. He shows it with deliberate collapse of the knuckles, but it's very useful when aiming to keep the knuckles primed). If I do a similar thing with an octave, slanting down to the fifth tends towards improving the arch but collapsing the 5th knuckle, whereas turning to the thumb tends towards priming the fifth finger and collapsing the arch. I find that working at both extremes helps get to a point where the fifth can prime even when rocking to the outside and where the arch can still be maintained when rocking towards the thumb. It's similar with pairs of fingers- where going in a particular direction tends to aid one finger yet encourage collapse of the other knuckle. However, again it's possible to keep BOTH knuckles primed even in huge extremes, once they get the feel.
I think this approach to finding balance in extremes of rotation is an excellent counterpart to the more obvious back and forth exercises (where the wrist goes up and down), that keep everything in a single plane of movement.
Anyway, there's still a lot of work to put this into consistent practise, but I'm hoping to get this ingrained into something that comes completely naturally, before next month!
A
A pianist
I'm glad to see that the issue I put forward was very debated. It took me a while to understand all those concepts that derived from my question.
Yes. But I can only make this happen if I maintain the support that the shoulder offers. If I switch off all muscle activity and lay my hand dead on the keyboard I just can't make the hand ascend by extending the thumb downwards. However this thing helps. The thumb doesn't hinder my playing so much.
Because I have felt that something in my playing is not working properly. The music doesn't flow. And after your advice and Andrew's I came to the conclusion that my problem is gravity-related. You said it yourself when you hadn't even saw me playing that there is a strong probability that I concentrate too much effort where I shouldn't. Andrew couldn't have cleared the problem better. I wanted to relax not because I'm trying to play piano with switched-off muscles but because I want to get rid of the unnecessary tension. I'm aware of it and, as Andrew already stressed, I want to feel gravity because this can lead me to perceiving the spots where the muscles don't work efficiently.
I have the same problem at playing broken chords. They are not smooth and my hand is not stable.
Do you refer to a collapse towards the body or an outward one?
Do I have this illusion too? Or is my hand so unstable that my finger actions are really propelling the hand upwards everytime I play a key? I'm not able to concentrate at both my actual movements and how they look from the outside.
A
A pianist
I wouldn't advise getting the thumb to work against total release yet. My point is just about the differences between the 100% supported arm (which MUST occur- in the situation where the thumb has no means to contribute to balance whatsoever) compared to a situation where it might seem like the shoulder is supporting 100%- unless compared to the situation where it really is. It's quite a subtle difference, but I think it helps give an idea of how just a very slight sense of "resting" can contribute to a vastly greater sense of ease. Even if you're willfully intending to support the weight at the shoulder end in both of those situations, it should give a sense of the greater release that can occur. When it's just right, the thumb scarcely feels like it's supporting any weight at all- but it still creates the opportunity for a sense of major comfort.
If I spent a few minutes with my thumb touching a vertical surface, a sense of tiredness would be inevitable. However, when it's contacting a key at the keybed even the most "weightless" of feelings at the thumb itself should enable countless muscles to let go and ease up (in a way that they could not, in the former situation). In many ways, it's more like a sense of merely "touching" the keybed (with a very actively extending thumb) than of resting on it- yet there are all kinds of different releases that become possible, while keeping this light contact.
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