Keybedding, impact and injury

Playing "to the bottom fo the keys" is a phrase that I've heard a lot, although I've been uncertain as to the best way to achieve such a result. I'm presuming that the phrase means to let the key go as far down as it can go, as opposed to only letting the key go part of the distance it can go (i.e. playing "out of the keys" or "on the surface of the keys"). What is the best way to ensure that you go to the bottom of the keys without becoming excessively tense? I think that some pianists injure themselves because they press too hard on the keys, probably in an attempt to ensure that the key goes all the way down. I think you raise a good point there. I think this is something that there's much confusion on- because what actually IS "all the way down"? Due to the piece of felt under the key, no matter how hard you press the key, it will generally have room for the felt to be compressed a little further still. Try looking really closely at the key as you push it down then push it a little harder still. You should see that there's room for a little more movement. You could push the hell out of it and will almost certainly still have room for more movement. Conversely, try playing a key with a loose finger and not sending the key anywhere near the bottom. If you look very closely, you'll likely see that it actually reached the felt and then bounced up. It's nothing to do with either reaching or failing to reach the keybed. Everyone reaches it. The real difference is whether the key stabilises there or bounces back up. But I'm confident that virtually all good pianists are doing exactly the same thing of contacting the keybed and stabilising against it, rather than allowing the instant bounce- at least, in the majority of their playing. For all the differences in descriptions, there's really very little difference in the reality of what happens in a healthy mechanism. I'd translate Matthay as saying- "don't exert ongoing pressure against the keybed with pressure from the whole arm". And Llhevine as saying "play confidently enough to feel the contact with the felt underneath the key". They almost certainly refer to a product that is scarcely different. Sadly- what neither actually explained was HOW to make landings comfortably. Matthay just warns of an easy trap to fall into and Llhevine just conveys one part of the puzzle (in a way that could send some people into the trap Matthay refers to!). The general explanation of how it's possible to avoid stress when landing at the keybed is in the post- although the more specific practicalities of putting the concept into practise will be in the next one.

If you want to make landings comfortable, make them compression-free. AFf

Hi guys. ( I haven't been on the forum in a while--had to have operation on pinky because of hyper-extension--at least now, I can move it again.) what you are talking about is called "aftertouch." It's the distance the key travels once the jack escapes from beneath the knuckle that's on the hammer shank. You can tell how much there is by grasping the key with two finger, one on top, the other on bottom, and press down slowly. You will feel resistance then a sudden drop of the resistance. The distance the key moves from the resistance (the ledge) to bottoming out is the aftertouch. It is generally a matter of what you like. --within certain guidelines. Without getting too technical, Alan is right on. For years, the felt punching that is underneath the front of key could be compressed. The harder you play, the more compression. You'd never know quite where you were. You don't want a spongy feel at the bottom of the stroke or play so hard that you really compress the felt--that could cause injury if done that way for too long. Also there is a spring that is acting against you pressing the key down. Its job is to get the hammer back up so you can play again, quickly. If you play too hard you defeat the purpose of the spring. Watch the hammer as you do a moderate blow all the way down. Then, without taking you finger off the key, gently, release a small amount of tension. --for me, my piano is set so I only have to think I'm going to let up pressure-- you will see the hammer come back up to the string, ready to be played. That's the beauty of the grand piano. You don't have to let the key all the way up before you can play again (repetition). It's called "double escapement." As Alan said, This is exactly right but very difficult to do. The density of the felt changes with how much it's been compressed as you play, even the humidity changes the feel. Although, practice, practice, practice, will let you learn where compression starts on your piano. However, just in the past few years this problem have been addressed and solved. There is now a new type of punching, called "Wurzen" or "Crescendo." It is very firm, without being stiff or hard, and is . It is a huge step forward verses the old green stuff that's been used forever. My piano has it. It really makes a difference. I don't know of any pianist who having changed to the new felt say they wanted the old stuff back. You can play to the bottom of the keystroke with confidence. It is responsive and allows you to spring out of the key as needed. And whether playing loudly or softly the feel at the bottom of the keystroke is exactly the same! -- without compression-- and the danger of missing the keystroke because of sponginess or playing so hard you sustain an injury. You know exactly where the end of the keystroke will be. The only downside to using the new felt is you have to have your piano re-regulated; but you do that every year anyway, right? bob t provo, utah, usa

You can play to the bottom of the keystroke with confidence. It is responsive and allows you to spring out of the key as needed. And whether playing loudly or softly the feel at the bottom of the keystroke is exactly the same! -- without compression-- and the danger of missing the keystroke because of sponginess or playing so hard you sustain an injury. You know exactly where the end of the keystroke will be. Not that I'm wishing to suggest that the new felt wouldn't be a big improvement, but I couldn't imagine it would really change the technical issues, surely? Some pianos expose bad technique more than others. Mid-size Yamaha grands in particular, seem to be extremely springy and very easy to play positively into. I did this on such a piano quite a few years ago. However. I think that a truly efficient technique ought to be much the same on any instrument. I wouldn't have had a hope in hell of faking my way through that piece on a concert Steinway. A Yamaha allowed me to get away with a slightly stiff "braced" approach, but on the action of a concert Steinway I'd have to brace to the point of total rigidity and it would simply grind to a halt. By compression I think Alan was referring to compression of the joints against the keybed. If you press hard against the wall, there's no give at all in the material, so the hand would get seriously compressed together by ongoing pressure. Perhaps the new part is more consistent in how it compresses than others? Being compressible is actually what would be expected to reduce impact and having no room for compression would certainly cause more of it in the hand- unless the energy is redirected upon contact. I'm guessing that maybe the material starts by being compressible (to absorb the blow) but only then settles at a predictable point where further compression is now impossible- meaning that the level of the key is completely consistent? Anyway, as I say, I'm sure there's a genuine improvement, but I can't imagine how it could change the basic necessity of an efficient movement. One post I'm starting to write illustrates just how much difference in efficiency is possible in a keystroke that produces identical volume. There are some very basic principles that illustrate why some people struggle so much for tone and end up hammering into the keybeds- yet still produce a small tone. Anything in the design that improves comfort is great, but I think the movement issues will always be extremely important. An added safety net is great, but I do firmly believe that good technique enables soft landings on virtually any piano.

I agree. I didn't mean to imply that the new parts make up for the lack of technique, only that these new felts help those who already have technique. Those people are the ones who are most likely to be able to tell the difference. And actually, they were made with the concert artist in mind. Without solid technique I doubt if the difference would even be noticed. But for those who can feel the ledge where escapement is as well as to know exactly where the key stroke ends is an advantage. These new punching are btw are also a different shape. For concert (performance) pianos they are conical, for regular pianos they are the standard, flat. These parts were developed in Europe and are being used in the finer pianos made there. To get them in the USA, they have to be imported. --I don't want to get off the subject of this thread too much, but here's a radical one for you (and me): The designers of M&H have come up with new parts to replace the wooden ones. They are made out of composite carbon fiber. They have a completely different feel, not being wood, give a different quality to the sound. Most people I've talked with don't' seem to like them--but it may be a matter of getting used to this "new" feel. The question was asked if M&H is using them in any production pianos. they said not yet, but probably in a couple of years they will be & they can be ordered as a special built piano. I'd like to read what you are writing when you finish. I'm still trying to work out the difference between the Russian school and the western. Some of the ideas seem radically opposed, while others are right in line. I keep trying to improve my technique, but I keep getting older and the body doesn't want to do as it used to be able to do. --If I only knew fifty years ago, what I now now! But, I guess we are all in the same boat. I do appreciate this thread and the forum. It's so great to learn and be able to pass these thing on. Bob

Hi Nice to hear from you Bob I hope your pinky will do fine after the surgery.Also very pleased to hear that there are developments on the material side.I guess the business is utterly consevative and probably we'll see some changes in the near future. Some guitars now are built with a film of nanomaterial and they don't sound bad maybe it's time to try a soundboard with these new materials? Been playing on an old wonderful Malmsjo D-model (swedish) from 1904 this summer and I was thinking of trying this new felt on that one. Do you need a full consert regulation or are you talking about just some adjustments when you change to this new felt? Speaking of age yeah if I knew what I know today my god but still there are some benefits on the interpretational side and if we're lucky this is something one can practise far beyond retirement.Keeps the dementia away and the neuromotor in shape! And frankly even some young wunderkids with virtuoso technique has a long way before them... When playing on the Malmsjo I noticed that my third a bit to fat finger did fine due to the used action so I have a question here do you think I could let the factory enlarge the distance between the black keys some 0,1-0,3mm without damaging the action to much? Speaking about innovations why do producers not make pianos like the older ones with smaller hammers less pressure etc? I mean who reaaly needs a big 20-ton pressured Steinway in their home and regarding all the new material progress one could easily improve those old models.Besides I'd say some registers on these old instruments has an uneqaled beauty. Best regards Eric

These new punching are btw are also a different shape. For concert (performance) pianos they are conical, for regular pianos they are the standard, flat. Ah, interesting. That would certainly make sense then. Presumably this would indeed provide more "give" to start with, in order to ease you more gradually towards the point where there's little room to move any further.