Hitting Bottom

Hi I started out early at about 4y old and I had wellknown teachers, even some lessons with Cziffra. Far from beeing a prodigue I was able to play very advanced peices and did so in lot's of conserts. Never became a pro though. After 2 decades of not playing at all I restarted a few months ago.At the time I stopped in my 30ths I read Lhevinnes "Playing the piano" and it changed my wievs completely.I realized that having beeing a young virtuoso no one of my (famous) teachers cared about my sound or my technique. So in a way I was never thaught the basics.However I was unconsciously aware of that for example when I had the opportunity to play for Rubinstein.I could feel that he was not the slightest impressed.A polite man he wouldn't tell me the truth but he recommended me to play the inventions of Bach.Beeing 14 y old and playing peices like Mazeppa I got very very confused. Lhevinne wrote about hitting the bottom using the fleshy part of the fingertip.Trying this out my sound changed over night.I had other things to do at the time than reshaping everything I had played, so I stopped completely.But I have been thinking of technique a lot since then. Your DVD was a new revelation. The scientific approach cut's out the bullshit (excusez-moi mon francais) and confusions that is prevalent in lot's of teaching.We can reach the moon but very few have done successfull scientific research in pianomethodology. I've found out myself that there are three bottoms.The obvious one is what Lhevinne is talking about, the other one is so to speak the resistance where your finger feels the ivory surface just before pressing the key down. .The third one is a slight resistance in modern pianos which you can feel if you press down the key 2-3mm.Working only with this little interval,about o-8mm, gives a great feeling of control. Lhevinne preferred the old pianos like Erard and I beleive his method is easier to implement on these beautiful instruments.I have a few questions related to this: 1) Do you sense this bottomfeeling all the time when you play? Slapping is fine and necessary to develop the muscels in the hand but in my taste what you might gain in sonority you loose in control and energy.A modern piano has as I said above two resistances (don't know the english word) do you use the first one (about 1-3mm down) as a conscious bottom when you play ppp? I beleive speed is important whenever you push a key down but is speed important when you only hit the "first" bottom? 2)In your DVD your 2nd knuckle is way higher than the 5th. I ask myself is it not advisable to use the 5th knuckle as an alternative base (5th higher than 2nd) in some passages ? For example in down passages in Chopin op25nr12 (with a little help from the elbow?I remember that cziffra kept his fifth finger like a nail in the wall and he was constantly cultivating this finger even in relaxed conversations.By the way his playing was really sceletal! I would be very grateful if you could develop these aspects.This was more than two qestions! Thankyou for your DVD, a goldmine for struggling pianoplayers and for your scientifique non-ego approach. Eric

Dear Eric, Thanks for your kind words, I am honoured to hear them from a pianist who played for Cziffra AND Rubinstein! And yes, they were both REALLY skeletal! Now about your questions: 1) The "middle bottom" you describe is what I call the escapement, the place half-way down where the key, in a well-regulated grand action, 'catches' on the whaddaycallit (Bob, help me here!). You very rightly observe that it is difficult to feel that 'middle bottom' in vigorous slapping. And right now I am practicing a lot with sticking my straight fingers into the key almost horizontally and creating a direct 'bone-to-keybed' feeling, again bypassing any feeling at all of the 'middle bottom,' the escapement. But I do agree with you, in many instances it is wonderful to play on the escapement instead of going to the bottom of the keys. I liken it to walking in one of those inflated balloon houses or on a trampoline where you sink in and bounce up again. 2) Since the DVD was made I have come to agree with you. I think my lowered 5th knuckle in the film is a sign of laziness rather than relaxation, and now my own 5th is more activated. Sometimes I even put it right up, making the 5th finger a wall like Cziffra. As I say elsewhere in this forum, Seymour Fink's film was a key influence in bringing about this evolution in my own thinking and playing. Thanks for a nice post! Et merci pour ton effort de s'exprimer en anglais. Si tu veux ecrire quelques choses en francais, soyez libre, je vais traduire mon reponse! AFF

Cher Alan! Merci pour votre réponse claire et précise. Je suis d'origine suèdois résidant la Suisse et la Belgique depuis très longtemps ce qui n'a pas fait progresser mon anglais. J'essaye quand-meme.Vous les Canadiens avez des grands avantages.. Just read the mail about "keybedding" which is adjacent to the above.I have had the same problem when "hitting bottom" to eagerly. To cure this I've practised for a while feather legato and it helps. It also helps to soften up my 2nd knuckle.My 2nd knuckle rarely collapse (je suis bien élevé) but I feel that it doesn't function to well maybe because I'm out of practise. However I find that keybedding can give a really beautiful sound and is a good tool in the orchestrationbox. It's maybe like a golfswing, what you do after the clubhead hits the ball is in theory unimportant but in reality you have to "go through" as much as you can if you want yards. Do you have a tip to soften up my 2nd knuckle, I have the book it should be there somewhere. Bien à vous Eric

How about page 83-84, I am thinking especially of the 'Thwap!' picture. If the 2nd knuckle is too tight it probably means it is not strong enough and your use of the lumbrical needs to be exaggerated. Using the flat finger is helpful in really making the work of the lumbrical stand out and individuate from the work of the other finger flexors... Difficult to say at this distance but try this out and see if you can figure out what I am talking about... Well... maybe yes maybe no... I learned my French mostly at University because I was too slack to apply myself to it earlier. Now there are more of us who are really bilingual... Cheers, AFF

Hi & Thanks! I think I got it and it feels right so far.It is amazing that fingers you thought were a problem are not the problem. I read very carefully about Feux-Follets and that really helped.I've now moved that piece from the failure-list to the maybepossible-list. Thank's Eric

That's exciting news, keep us posted! AFF

Well, this is the 5th time I've written a response to this. Trying to keep it simple isn't easy, but here goes again. Yes, Alan, I think you are right and what is being referred to is what happens right at the point of escapement. If there is any resistance here, it will be felt. As the key is pushed further down, it will suddenly give way and continue down to the bottom of the key bed. During that time, the hammer has been sent on its way, and you have no more control over what is happening. The escape of the jack from the knuckle should be as frictionless as possible. There should not be a feeling of resistance, but rather, a feeling of smoothness as the jack returns under the knuckle, ready to play the note again. Three things are felt when we push down the key. 1st is the touch of the key top and as the key is pressed, the breaking of inertia to get the key moving. This will be followed almost immediately by the weight of the dampers lifting. If the piano is regulated correctly and working correctly, the movement of the action will seem effortless, because all things are balanced and leveraged perfectly. Half way through the key stroke, the jack, which is being pushed up against the knuckle (that is on the hammer shaft), the knuckle being round, the jack moves out away from this "ledge," as it propels the hammer to the string. As the hammer is moving to strike the string, the jack moves back under the knuckle--before it has time to return to where it was, and the note is ready to be played again as soon as the knuckle touches the tip of the jack. This is the beauty of a grand piano action. The key does not have to be pressed all the way down for escapement to take place and the jack to be repositioned beneath the knuckle. --which gives the ability to play rapidly and also with power. If there is too much resistance, perhaps the knuckle has flattened or is too large/heavy. You can feel a "catch" in trying to move the key down. This is because the jack has hung up on the ledge. If you feel resistance here, that is wrong and will take control away. What you should feel, if anything, is a giving way of any resistance--into the lost motion of the key--and the jack has already kicked out and returned beneath the knuckle. It will be very smooth. You know exactly where the place is--not because of resistance being there, but because of resistance going away. The less resistance, the less friction, the less effort to overcome inertia and the easier it is to play the piano as well as have control. The piano will not feel heavy, even though it takes 50 g. to push down the key. Because all things are balanced properly, inertia is overcome. It is not so much the effort (resistance) to press the key down (down weight & up weight), that makes a piano feel "catchy," or heavy, but there being too much inertia to make the piano play as you want. This is called the "touchweight." If the inertia is high, you will feel it as heaviness, sluggishness, resistance, and it will make you quite tired. Some types of playing, rapid, reptition, will be or soon become impossible. It just takes too much effort to overcome the force necessary to move the mass of the action. The third "resistance" will be when the key is pressed passed the ledge and bottoms on the key bed. How much of this 'aftertouch' there is is often a matter of choice. But It is especially useful in forte passages and at speed. Using the weight of the arm and shoulder, the key goes all the way to the keybed. The bottom of the keybed being solid, reflects the force back into the hand and gives a spring to the movement. This sets you up to be able to do again, the same thing. So the short answer is the escapement is when the jack stops pushing up on the knuckle, which is attached to the hammer shank, and the cycle is completed by the jack returning beneath the knuckle, before it has a chance to slip past the repositioning, jack. If there is resistance at the ledge, it's because the jack is hung up. It won't be able to get to its return position beneath the knuckle, and the next time you play it (if you haven't gone all the way to the keybed), there will be only a "thump." I know. All this is clear as mud. The grand action is really a marvel. When it's set right, the movement and perceived weight of having to push down the keys, does not get in the way of what you (we) are trying to do. Playing is effortless and controlled. And very little resistance is felt. However, most pianos, if not all, unless specifically requested are set up to met the demands of general populace and not the concert artist. It takes a highly skilled technician to do a "concert" regulation, but if you expect to play well, the piano must be right & of course we have to have our bodies and minds in shape as Alan talks about. From my understanding, Horowitz had his piano fully regulated before each concert. And that's what it takes: an instrument that will give back, what is given to it. Bob t

Hi Bob! First time I read this detailed explanation from you I'm glad you took your time and posted it once more.This forum is exiting! The anatomy of the action is as important than that of the body so I really want to find out what is going on. I've played on balanced actions and of course unbalanced but never understood the difference between resistance and resistance going away.The absence of resistance can feel like a resistance so to speak. I personally prefer a slightly heavier action. If I understand you right what I really prefer is heavier downweight not heavier touchweight or more inertia. Is there a way to mesure what you call touchweight? Is it possible to adjust what you call "aftertouch"? Eric

Hi Eric, Glad the mud is a little less muddy. The subject is really complicated. It gets into lots of formulas, calculations, trial, error, back to the drawing board, more formulas. The way an action feels and plays, heavy & fast, heavy & slow, light and fast, light and slow, depend on many factors. We have to look at the amount of weight that hits the strings and the balance weight, which is the average of the down and upweight of the key with the action on top of it, but no dampers. you divide these and come up with a ratio (amount of leverage). If the ratio is too low the hammer will move too slowly and you are driving a tank. If the ratio is too high, you are on a galloping horse and to control it you have to have make much too far movement of the key, that would be acceptable. The ratio of "useful" leverage falls between 5 and 7. 5.5 is the Hamburg B, and that's what if you feel it, you most likely will say it's just right. If you change the down and up weight, you change the balance weight, thus, the ratio. You need to decided what kind of tonal projection is wanted: to fill a concert hall, rectal hall, living room? A "full projection" tone will fill the concert hall and give the most color. A "light projection" tone will be suitable for the living room, but not be able to produce the color, the orchestral sounds the piano is capable of. If you balance the action so the leverage (strike ratio) is being produced correctly & between 5 and 7; and the average of the down + up is set for example 38 (50 down, 22 up), here's how the piano will feel: Low Strike weight & low leverage, medium. Low Strike & High Leverage, extra light. Medium Strike weight and low leverage=heavy Medium and medum= medium medium strike and low leverage= light Full strike and low leverage = extra heavy Full strike weight and full leverage = medium touch. Generally, if you can match strike weight to the leverage, full to full, light to light, it will be a medium touch weight and preferred. It's when go away and start mixing light strike with full leverage or full strike with light leverage, that playing is going to be problematic, especially if you go outside the ratio of between 5 - 7. That's about as simple as I can put it. So yes, you can change the feel by changing the downweight; but you have to be careful to keep it in line with the leverage, else your piano will be unplayable. A competent technician will be able to do this. However, it takes a lot of time and cost lots--a few thousand dollars. Most people don't need the "concert" regulation. But if you can feel it and want command of the piano & it to your liking, then it's worth it. The mud thickens! I sort of wish I hadn't chimed in on this. It gets technical very fast. --it takes, just guessing, about 20-30 adjustments to 30 or more things, then times that by 88, to get things close. I was talking with a friend who told me of a piano being worked on where they were doing just six of these things--they are three days into it and only 1/3 of the piano is done. But once done, it doesn't have to be done again like that, unless you change your mind. And that's supposing nothing, such as humidity or temperature changes! Bob t

Hi Bob! Well you gave me something to think about.Thank's a lot, I printed this out and I guess I'll have to give it some time. That's what learning is about digging through mud! I've been looking for a piano (read your post on Steinway vs Fazioli) recently and I can see why it is so confusing. I guess some dealers as well don't have a clue. If all pianos were perfectly concert-balanced the task would be easier... Amateurs like myself are supposed to be able to play on any instrument for sure and that's a skill in itself but it's good for your confidence (maybe necessary) to hear yourself on a perfectly balanced one once in a while. I read a good Horowitzbio (was it by Plaskin) a long time ago and I guess he had his share of incredibly bad pianos. No wonder he (and others) became obsessive when it came to instruments. Thanks for your time Eric