Have you ever worked with Alan Fraser?Share your experiences

There are many things that i would like to mention regarding your last post but i would want to tell you something about your quote in that paragraph This is key because I can stretch more than an octave to begin with - and because la camp requires those notes to be played in some way and that, whether it was your point or not, is Listz's and it is an octave You know you really missed the point.Listz's way to play that passage means you have to use rotation.That's what the videos shows.If you like the youtube videos go and watch some great artist perform campanella (my recomendation is to see Kissin's videos).All these great artists use rotation. And from your syntax "wheter it was your point or not ,is liszt's and it is an octave" means that you do not understand that there is no horizontal stretching of the fingers!You should NOT reach an octave by opening the space between the third finger and the 5th in that passage. Even if you could it is very akward to open and reach an octave by opening those 2 fingers in pronated position.However by rotating you will see that one finger goes up (the fifth) and other finger goes down (the third). Do this:In the pronated position raise the fifth finger as up as it can go,lower the third finger as down as it can go and now SUPINATE your hand and observe the relation between the third and fifth finger.The fingers are pointing in different directions yet this helps you play this passage. Notice that the notes here through the use of your hands in that one passage,have to be reached with with the help of rotation. Kissin does it,yundi lee does it all the great pianists do it and professor on the dvd does it.It does not matter if you reach or not.It is an exercise to show you that YOU have to play in that position like this in order to have any success.Otherwise with the horizontal movement of the hand in pronated position fatigue builds so quick,in just a few miliseconds you feel pain and you will quote "LA CAMPANELLA is the most difficult piano piece" which is frustrating. All those who do not do it like this -(with rotation i mean)-,are those people that CANT play this passage well and struggle with it.Those who do not struggle use the correct way -(rotation)-. And it is not the octave way as you say.Now if you struggle use the method professor Alan shows in the dvd and experiment.Take your time.However i hope you can understand that different passages require different techniques,and this one requires rotation. Best regards

I don't know what to say really. I've been teaching for 35 years on 3 continents and a dozen countries, and everywhere I run into the same deficiencies in my students' playing. This film is not an attempt to present a COMPLETE piano technique. There's now way it could be done in 90 minutes! But it IS an attempt to fill in the worst holes. Virtually nobody plays with a decent legato. Many people tell me, "I have never seen legato taught by holding down two notes." But for me, it's obvious - if you hold down two notes it's legato, if you don't it's not. BUT MOST PEOPLE DON'T. Sometimes I feel like I am suffering from 'Emperor's New Clothes Syndrome,' pointing out things that are obvious but nobody sees. I start with walking because that's what everyone is missing. Sure, you need dozens of different ways of 'walking' for all the different dynamics and articulations - but chances are you are trying all of them without even knowing basic 'piano-walking' in the first place. Each exercise relates to hundreds of examples from the repertoire. Take any legato passgage and learn it walking or overholding and see if it doesn't improve your control. I didn't present examples for every exercise because of time constraints, and also because I assume my viewer will make the connection. Time constraints were also why I could not demonstrate with students as I would have liked to - I hope in a future film to rectify that one. Many viewers have also complained that I have a large hand and ask, "do these things work for a small hand?" OF COURSE THEY DO, I explain it very clearly for instance at the beginning of the octaves chapter. The point is to improve your hand's so that no matter what its size, it is more capable. Kind regards! AFF

There are many things that i would like to mention regarding your last post but i would want to tell you something about your quote in that paragraph I want you do a thought experiment. You walk up to someone and say "I haven't seen the dvd but..." and then talk at length - and then, and this is the point I want to get across, you feel an enormous pain in your gonads, a real seering pain not unlike a size 11 has arrived and departed. As I said, a forum isn't really the ideal for the conversation you seem to want Again, if that's too subtle, if you got the impression that I though piano playing didn't require forearm rotation you're still a mile away. Why not just ignore my posts because I have no respect for what you say because of what you said before about the DVD being good without watching it - that could change, but it won't in this thread, not even if you do watch it. It's a simple loss of credibility.

I don't know what to say really. I've been teaching for 35 years on 3 continents and a dozen countries, and everywhere I run into the same deficiencies in my students' playing. Yeah, I'd expect your students to learn from you. Now think about me - i.e someone who isn't your student buying your DVD - not doing a review like German piano weekly nor a teacher for their students etc nor someone who has read the book. No doubt I have the same deficiencies as your students, and more - and so do all the other teachers too. Now, I either have a teacher or I don't. If I do, s/he is like the arm weight guy in the other thread so I have to decide which is right, you or my teacher. If I don't have a teacher, then I don't have the conflict but assuming intelligence is a big assumption I think In that position, I'm unlikely to "try it and see" - why? Because as you say people are intelligent. That doesn't mean they are clever in the way that I suspect you meant when you say you "assume your viewer is intelligent". Intelligence isn't a help for that. All humans are intelligent, even the ones we think aren't But intelligence just means that they are human and thus have minds, so they watch your video and think "Nah" or "Yeah" - they might be right or wrong, of course, which is where you might differentiate between "intelligent and dumb", but the most dumb idea is in fact, intelligence at work So, no, assuming they are intelligent assumed nothing that isn't a given, otoh, your assumption probably doesn't result in what you expect. That's pretty much how the guy at the top of the thread decided you were going to be his teacher, natch. He was sold before it worked, not after spending hours / weeks / months trying it to see if it would. So, to press the point I'll be absurd for a minute, let's say I say "try peeing on the piano, see if that improves your tone..." of course it won't , but if someone says "try it and see..how many hours did you spend doing it?" quite obviously you're thinking 'But...FFS, your idea hasn't convinced me enough to try it at all...' or possibly if it wasn't so absurd you might say "well, I did try but it felt strange and I wasn't sure if I was doing it right...blah blah" rather than hours of dedicated effort. Now, of course, I'm not suggesting your DVD is absurd in that sense at all, but nevertheless what I am saying is that it didn't convince me. But in those 35 years of experience you've had countless students that didn't always do what you said so this isn't new. As an aside, it's probably one reason why Hanon "works" despite the seemingly abundance of "science" and opinions to the contrary. It works, at least for some people, that didn't even do it, because they didn't actually do it but, this is the magic part, they told their teacher "yeah I did it" Their teachers saw how much they'd improved after they gave it them to do. Since I wrote the earlier posts, and having thought more I think my biggest problem for even simple pieces is worrying too much about these movements, fingers, arms, weight, and DVDs / books that purport to work on that area. The biggest downside is that there are these fancy pants methods and books but I can't find a local teacher that is aware of or teaches them Had I acquired a good technique in my childhood I'd probably be laughing, but I didn't and just about everything conspires against an adult learner IME. But I think my mistake is worrying too much about exercises, fingers this and that, rather than worrying about just playing pieces I can until they sound musical rather than worrying about whether I'm moving my fingers in the right way. Moreso after this discussion - in that sense though your DVD has been invaluable. How about "The best piano technique DVD that I've not followed..."? - you can quote me on that...I'll let you know if not doing it improves my playing as much as Hanon did for past generations

First of all let me say that I am neither a student of Mr. Fraser nor someone, who would say "this DVD is the solution to all piano-related problems".. nor a Feldenkrais advocat. You are right, if (among many other things.. ) you are saying, that peoples -of-skill. The key to real progress, I think, won't change, no matter what: a) actual experience (not misleading experiences, influenced by preconceived opinions of how things should work or feel or even false sensory-awareness) b) open-mindedness c) a lot of patience and "never give up" So for example... if it's only 3 seconds anywhere in the DVD that seem interesting or stimulate some new experimenting of how to play, go ahead! And don't waste time rampaging about each and every method and teacher out there. Most humans are not brought up in such a way, that we manage to find the best ways all on our own, we input from outside, especially if we didn't acquire a skill naturally as a child ! As adults, when we are so completely accustomed to our "own-little-world", we have to investigate everything from a fresh angle.... or... we will go on as usual, meandering between "hoping it'll work out in the end somehow" and "the more/harder I work the better"... or even "music will do it's magic on me and my playing". But ofcourse... we have the freedom to choose! If we can live in peace with mediocre playing, then that's it. No need to worry about anything there. Now.. what is 'mediocre' and what not, guess what: to a large part it is opinions... again!

I agree with you!We all have to be very open minded.One has to be open minded and ready to escape from the idea that "my world is no 1 priority for me,i don't care about the rest of the world". Progress has to happen within us.When i just read a paragraph of that book or some clips from the demo ,i at once felt the desire to go and explore those new ideas,to intergrate them in to my playing. Just one sentence and it could change your life.In that sense the writings and articles on the book have been very beneficial for me.Those writings made me want to go and explore,practice and see what is possible. When i saw the Liszt Feux Faulets chapter or the Jeux d'eau and the weird hand position it requires to create that legato and water-impresionistic like effect,i remember how much time i spent after with much vigor and effort from my side to try it wherever i can,to over-do it and try to see what is possible with those new ideas. It has been some of the best times of my pianistic life to discover and feel that good sound and the sonorities that come out of the piano are not a mystery in the sense that only a few people can do it. Of course nothing can substitute the need for a good teacher or professor,however for pianists that have had troubles for a long time and noone seemed to help it is something excellent. And not only for them but for every pianist! Best regards

Well, I am sorry you are not convinced, because I do try to please everybody... But I must add something I've already said, that everything I said in the DVD is no substitute for music. If you can get straight to the music, more power to you! If the DVD HELPS you get to the music, that's great too. If it doesn't, I hope you find another way, and perhaps the DVD will make a good gift to a friend, or if you are really down on it, to one of your favorite enemies... Funny what you said about Hanon, that is EXACTLY what I did at age 10 with my teacher!!! best wishes, AFF

-of-skill. In a sense, yes. Let me expand on it one more time, to give a context for where I'm coming from. I've played the piano for a few years, starting in my late 30s. But, IMO, I can't play a single piece to my satisfaction. That's not a single piece from advanced classical rep or Minuet in G type stuff or even pop and boogie woogie. In fact, I can't play a C major scale to my satisfaction. Worse, irrespective of the sound I make - playing hurts unless you can play the right dynamics too. I figure the pain suggests it's the physical way I'm playing - da dah...enter several years of searching for that "Eureka!" moment when someone or something solves that problem for me - this DVD being one of those potential things. Clearly most piano books and literature and to that matter piano teachers who aim at the unwashed masses are telling you stuff like where middle 'c' is, what makes a major / minor chord, what notes are in major / minor scales, what whole / half / dotted etc notes are, key signatures and stuff like that. I knew that stuff before I started though. Without wishing to sound too arrogant, most of these books / lessons move at a pace that makes you think 'FFS, get on with it' too. So you skip ahead and you realise in all ten books of the method, you learn no new theory at all. The whole thing justs boils down to 5 non trivial but nevertheless easy pieces that you could just buy the sheet music for and can sight read. But which in the entire so-called 'piano method' there's nothing that actually tells you how to play them - how to physically move to avoid injury or just to make a better sound. Obviously these type of books help some - usually children. They do teach something, but not playing the piano - at least not afaict. Even for adults they have the books like 'how to play despite years of lessons' which are largely aiui teaching patterns and stuff like that. At one point I thought I'd do whatever exercises were necessary for however many hours a day it took to play, anything, even CDEFGABC if that's what it takes. "well" in the sense that it feels comfortable, right, I feel as though I'm in control of the sound or at least have some idea of what to practise to eventually get that control. So that if want to play particular note(s) ppp or pp or p or f or ff and so on or staccato or legato, I have some clue as to what to do to achieve that. It might sound daft if it's something you never had to consider or like some tell me they 'just play' But as I said, I'm not so sure it's the right approach any more - because unless I've done something completely wrong, it hasn't worked so far. I've read thousands and thousands of forum posts , Gieseking's book 'piano technique' and so on. I've watched tons of videos of people that can play and videos from people who can't play too - hoping to pick up something from them. I've taken shedloads of painkillers or simply played for weeks without using my right arm. I've tried umpteen pieces from grade one to grade six and I've practised and played for hours a day. Every day. For years. No violent nuns or pushy parents required to get me to do it - I actually chose to go through all this...and yeah, I'm pretty frustrated by the whole experience now. And yeah, I take just a bit more convincing that whatever the next thing that's going to work which I find, will actually work than I would have done a week or two after starting. If anything, before I started I hadn't heard much rep nor many different pianists. As time has progressed and that has changed, I have a growing appreciation of just how much I suck I see people, some who can play very well and some who can't but who certainly aren't struggling so much to do it - if that makes sense? It's like you can find people on youtube who suck in an absolute sense, but in a way that appears proportional to the effort they put into it - they don't look like they are fighting with it as much as I feel I have to. If sucking is just one of those things that some people are going to do no matter what they try, perhaps that's who I am. I'm certainly open to that idea. Moreso and moreso as time progresses. But somewhere I still have a little bit of hope that it's possible for me to learn to play and that I'll find the book / method / teacher or, if I really need to swap the cow, the magic beans that'll do it. But I've put in the effort to play a little bit more by now than 'sweet fanny adams', so either I've put in the wrong effort, or I just can't play and never will. Indeed, it's the search for this ability to play the piano in a way that works, that meant I found this DVD in the first place. This DVD isn't on our local supermarket shelf that contains a bunch of popular, Hollywood blockbuster releases, after all. I didn't find it by accident The thing about the books is, they generally waffle on and have still photos or drawings, in an incomprehensible way. The worst of them says crap like 'Play fig 2a Using pronating spider fingers and finishing with supinating, flapping forearms with the gateaux thumbs from exercise 3.1" Meaningless, but nevertheless a book that has many respected people praising it. His video might go some way towards explaining what he actually meant before the translator and, I presume, a crate or three of a strong alcoholic beverage, were finished But I went for the not quite out of date technology of a DVD instead...and here I am.

I can understand that something that is bothering you when you want to be free from problems when dealing with the piano. My advice.Have you checked your apparatus?A friend of mine had focal dystonia in his hands and had tension that he could not explain,after visiting a doctor and checking him he discovered this sad truth.Now i am not suggesting that you have something similar,but maybe there is something else that needs to be fixed first. Also maybe your piano is not suited for playing well?I have seen many pianists studying on pianos with very akward and heavy mechanism.It may be ok if you really know how to activate your whole body with no strain,but for other people it can be fatal.I think it was Chopin who required that his students only practice and perform on the best pianos possible. There are so many reasons you could be having those problems.Believe me i started to practice piano when i was very young.For various years i had a good progress and played very difficult pieces.However i was not happy with it! I did not feel ready for action.I felt tension,and the difficult repertoire was mastered only by butchering my neighbors's ears by doing,thousands of repetitions of the same passages and following the -unfortunately- "weight relaxization" is the only way to go advice of my proffesor,who despite the fact that she played perfectly,she was a Breithaupt and Tobbias Matthay "follower". However i never stopped looking for other options and to find a way to be healthy towards my approach to music and technical stuff. I understood that only by having a total control of our body of our muscles can we succeed in this.I was not happy with weight relaxization,there had to be something more over there.There has to be active muscular effort too.I thought that a pianist has to have 100% control (like a radar) of all the perimeter of his body and always be ready to use what is needed each time. That's the reason i stopped with that proffesor when i passed my final exams at piano. Like you i collected many books that have to do with piano, the latest i got yesterday in pdf form is Otto Ortmann's the physiological mechanics of piano technique.What i want to say is that i am always trying to read as much as i can,and try to see what is best for me. What i want to advice is you is to never give up!Never!Always be open to new ways of approaching the instrument.The book and dvd will definitely help you.But not by watching it only.You have to integrate those to your playing,you have to spend much more time trying yourself to learn something of all those articles and advices.Noone learned a foreign language by only listening to tapes or by having a teacher.You have to experience all these by yourself!. Like you i have spent a lot of time in the past myself trying to fix those errors i was doing.Never stop!I am sure you will manage it in the end. And do not forget this forum is a valuable resource for all.So any questions you have and you do not understand you could ask in the related thread!Good luck! Best regards

I understood that only by having a total control of our body of our muscles can we succeed in this.I was not happy with weight relaxization,there had to be something more over there.There has to be active muscular effort too.I thought that a pianist has to have 100% control (like a radar) of all the perimeter of his body and always be ready to use what is needed each time. If we care to communicate by the written word about these complex matters, we have to be careful and exact as can be. 100% control over muscular activity is (proveable) physically impossible. The most prominent example is the autonomous muscular system of the spine. If you'd have to conciously control each and every muscle, you'd just go nuts.. you couldn't practically do anything. The thing to 'do' is not getting 100% control, but bad habits that are counter-productive.