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Hand Position And Orientation For Octave "Levers"

10 years ago by
A Pianist
Hi, I am practising some forte octaves using "levers" and I think i am gradually finding the correct coordination to perform an effortless weightless forte. I find keeping the 5th finger flat to be tricky sometimes. It is easy to do for black key octaves, because there is nothing to block the free movement of the flat finger. For white key octaves, however, I find it hard to find a hand position where the flat 5th finger can move freely and depress only 1 key. With curled finger I find it much easier to play octaves (although it's harder to get as loud). After some experiemnting I found 2 positions that work: 1) 5th finger orientation - feel very awkward in the thumb - there is a big stretch of almost 90 degrees to reach an octave, but the pinky is directly parallel to it's key. 2) Halfway between thumb and 5th finger orientation - the 5th finger is almost 45 degrees to its key - to play effectively with a flat 5th finger in this position I need my hand to be mostly out of the keyboard. I use a low wrist and grasp the edge of the keys. I find the 2nd position more comfortable than the first - the only issue I have with it is that there is a big hand movement to the outside and inside when switching from black key octaves to white keys in octave scales. In what hand positions do you use levers for octaves? Zack
10 years ago by
A Pianist
I've recently discovered an extremely effective exercise for optimal alignment, that you might find interesting. I've recently been experimenting with this one on various students. Think of a press-up, basically. Start by putting the palms of both hands flat against the keyboard, spaced a good distance apart (wrist out and fingers pointing inwards). Then very gradually lean your whole body inwards, trying to keep your torso aligned, but gradually allowing it to lean in from the base of the spine. All the way, you should be feeling everything is notable outside from your body, at the shoulders and elbows etc. As you slowly progress down, keep feeling that you are pushing yourself AWAY still, so nothing collapses. Then push yourself back up in the same way, again trying to feel that you are operating very much from the outside. I'd try this a few times, coming slightly more to the inside with the arms each time (rather than poking your elbows so far out), until you've reached the absolutely optimal alignment, where you feel that your arm is best equipped to push you directly back up. Do the last ones with your hand aligned parallel to the keys instead of sideways, as you gradually come slightly less from the outside. For myself, I realised that my optimal alignment of the elbow and shoulder was still far further out than I had initially imagined (and indeed utilised in playing). In the past I had definitely overdone movements of pushing the elbow out to follow through chords (collapsing my hand in the process). But I now realised that less than optimal alignments of my right hand have since been the result of failing to position the elbow and shoulder blade adequately to the outside- especially when playing at the outer end of the keyboard. I found that my elbow needed to come much more behind the fifth finger side of my hand. Anyway, what I described there is basically nothing more than a standard press-up done against the piano. Be a bit careful of course, but it certainly should not pose any more risks than the standard exercise. However, the next stage needs much more care, so please don't rush into this one. The next stage is to 'test' the position of any chords or position. Definitely start by witholding the weight of your torso almost entirely, for this though. It's about checking alignment, not subjecting your fingers to collossal weights. Strike a chord, and then lean into it VERY CAREFULLY and lightly. The procedure of alignment is likely to be very similar to the full press-up against the palm. If the hand is lined up optimally, the path of leaning in, and pushing yourself away from the piano should cause absolutely minimal discomfort. If it doesn't feel right, however, withold the weight at once! If you press on through a badly aligned wrist, this will certainly cause more harm than good, so please don't! However, when I feel I have achieved optimal alignment, I can (again VERY lightly) push myself away from the piano, monitoring whether that motion is in the correct path. Some of the push comes from the arm and some from the active, supporting fingers. If I feel any of this is veering notably sideways (or if any fingers are not contributing anything much to the line of motion), it tells me that it's not aligned right. If I feel I'm moving straight back up, in a very direct path, I'm happy with the alignment. I have recently been finding phenomenal benefits to my alignment of various things, with this exercise. Among others, I have found it to be very useful for stopping on 3/4 and an overheld thumb, for the passing position in scales and arpeggios. If the wrist is wonky, it won't feel right. You have to ease up and find a new position for the whole arm and shoulder, in order to start feeling comfortable about leaning into it. I also found huge benefits from playing the upper three notes of each physical position in op. 10 no. 1 (except for one or two bars where the span of all three is too great to balance adequately). I've found it very useful for positions of passing 3 or 4 over 5 in op. 10 no. 2. I had always found it very hard to avoid an angled wrist in those. By leaning in a little, I can find a perfectly aligned level wrist, while overholding both the fifth and the finger that passes over. Please be ESPECIALLY careful if you try this that type of position though. Remember that it's a light test that occurs in the same direction as the initial press up against the keyboard- not a vigorous or heavy press to build strength! Anyway, any thoughts on how this feels with regard to your octave position (which is certainly likely to be one of the safest positions in which to try this type of thing)? Personally, I cannot overstate how much difference this has made to my playing recently. Countless passages that had habitual insecurities have become comfortably balanced. I've found it's a great way of eliminating unwanted leaning- so the fingers work directly into the path of the key- not at a slight angle to it. Funnily enough, while I'm becoming more and more convinced that the fifth finger should be aligned as best as possible, I have simultaneously come to see how the leaning that Alan sometimes advocates can sometimes be of benefit. However, I'm feeling very strongly that an aligned fifth finger should be the base position which is always being strived towards, and only be deviated from for very specific purposes. I'm currently discovering that a wealth of holes in my technique have been caused by a slight sideways leaning, that served no function- either with regard to allowing the fingers to access the keys or with regard to helping the arm to stay stable. I've been aware that leaning was causing problems for ages. But I never managed to come even close to actually keeping level, or realised just how much of a problem had still remained. Now that I have finally discovered how to align better, for the most direct strokes, the style of finger action that Alan showed me is really starting to fully pay off. PS. One other thing in passing- regarding fifth finger alignment/ thumb support. At the moment, I'm even more convinced by fifth finger alignment than ever before (a position which the "press-up" experiment has naturally made me veer towards for optimal balance). However, I've simultaneously been experimenting with the most exaggerated thumb support, via enormously pronounced thumb push ups in ultra slow work on scales and arpeggios. I'm not seeing any contradiction at all between the two currently. In fact, they seem to complement each other. The more I lift up and support via my thumb, the more the next position of an aligned fifth seems to form of its own accord- with no traces of swivelling from the wrist. I'm actually seeing both things going hand in hand, rather than opposing each other. Anyway, sorry this is already very long. But I've been doing various other experiments that will hopefully be of interest, that I'll go into more detail with at some point.
10 years ago by
A Pianist
By the way, specifically to the octaves, full fifth finger alignment is rarely likely to be possible in practise. Although I'm finding that my optimal balance is much closer to full fifth finger alignment than full thumb alignment, it's definitely a compromise between the two. However, forty-five degrees strikes me as a rather big angle for the fifth to operate at. I'm certainly not hence assuming that it's necessarily a bad alignment (perhaps you have a fairly small hand, by the way?), but I'd be interested to know what you naturally end up with, if you're interested in trying out the exercise. Is it the same as you're currently going with or any different? Personally, I settle on a position much closer to a parallel 5th, rather than half way. However, my own hand is quite large (I can strike a fairly comfortable 11th), which may well account for the big difference.
10 years ago by
A Pianist
Hi Andrew Thank's for sharing this. It's really working, I just tried it out, and its not only a question of alignment it's also a question of using the immense power of the body-to be connected. I guess Alan "shaking" the piano in the DVD is something similar. I often get a feeling of lack of power and it usually takes quite a while to reconnect.But this simple excersise does the trick quickly. You do feel your triceps when doing this don't you? As for the pinky I've also almost stopped to use "elbow out" like you say it messes up everything else.In honing there is an ATM on "cocking the metacarpals" which I find particulary useful.With this technique you won't accumulate tension. Good thinking I'm going on vacation now and this was a great post to take with me. Eric
10 years ago by
A Pianist
After some experimenting I found 2 positions that work: 1) 5th finger orientation - feel very awkward in the thumb - there is a big stretch of almost 90 degrees to reach an octave, but the pinky is directly parallel to it's key. 2) Halfway between thumb and 5th finger orientation - the 5th finger is almost 45 degrees to its key - to play effectively with a flat 5th finger in this position I need my hand to be mostly out of the keyboard. I use a low wrist and grasp the edge of the keys. I find the 2nd position more comfortable than the first - the only issue I have with it is that there is a big hand movement to the outside and inside when switching from black key octaves to white keys in octave scales. In what hand positions do you use levers for octaves? I also find the second much easier, for the reasons you cite. But why the big change between black and white keys? How large is your hand? Only if you had a very small spread might this be a problem... As for Andrew's long post: bravo! And to my mind, this has been so fruitful for you because you cultivate kinesthetic learning: you don't impose a position but let your senses find the best position for you, from the inside. Nice! AFF
10 years ago by
A Pianist
Exactly. You have to be able to do both, and then your hand aligns optimally in each situation. Nice! And thank you as always... AFF
10 years ago by
A Pianist
Thank you Andrew and Alan for your replies. I have not replied to this post for a few days because I needed some time to process it and try several things. You asked if I had an especially small hand and this is definitely not the case - I can't reach an 11th like you, but I can comfortably span a 9th with a nice high arch, and I can reach a 10th but it feels like a big stretch, so I currently prefer playing them like fast broken chords (although I think that with practise I can learn to play 10ths without over stressing myself). So this made me think - why are white key octaves such a big deal? Normally, they are not - I can play octaves very comfortably, with a healthy high arch (and also very moveable). The reason I was having problems is that I tried an extremely flat pinky for "levers". After reading the levers chapter again, I realized that I have misinterperted the technique and exaggarated Alan's words "don't curl" and I actaully tried to use an extremly flat 5th finger to get as much contact with the key as possible. Naturally, if you do it on a white key your 5th finger has to be completely parallel to the keyboard - even slight angle forces your to go play outside the keyboard far from the black keys, so that your finger doesn't depress 2 white keys at once. On black keys this is not an issue because there is so much space the a low wrist and ultra flat fingers are feasible. Now, after re-reading "levers" I noticed that Alan writes "your flat finger plays with the pad and not the tip". I realize now the the important part of the technique is for the entire finger to move as one unit - not to get the entire distal phalange clamped to the key. After letting myself play with a relatiively flat (slightly curved) finger that still moves as one unit I don't have a problem playing octaves in any orientation even when the fingers are close to the black keys - and I still get a nice forte (when I remember not to tighten and press - developing instincts takes time ) Thank you very much for your help - and now I have Andrew's post which contains additional useful information for other situations too!
10 years ago by
A Pianist
This is a great post because it illustrates what riches appear when we keep on tweaking, going back and re-reading... A nice evolution! Nice work! AFF