Fingering Passage (Thumb Only Legato?)

Hi Alan! I bought your DVD, it was the best instructional video I had ever seen. I will study it closely and get the most out of your wise words. Recently, I've been trying to learn Utada Hikaru - "First Love" on piano. It's coming out good except I ran into a fingering problem with this passage... Top clef is treble Bottom cleff is bass, 4/4 time, Instructs to use pedal Since the bass notes are whole notes, that means I have to hold those notes with my left hand for 4 beats. At the same time, I have to play the leading melody and the melodic harmony with my right hand. I can play the top melody in the treble clef with legato using fingers 2-5 of my right hand... But what about getting legato on the melodic harmony line using only my thumb, as it's the only finger I have left? I don't want the melodic harmony line to sound choppy... Is "Thumb-only" legato even possible? Or does legato even matter when you're already pressing the pedal? How would you finger this passage?

Not if you're using the pedal!

Since it's all white keys, one thing you could probably do is slide your thumb down on the nail, like a glissando . . .

Not if you're using the pedal! Really? I know it makes the notes ring, but would that achieve the exact same aural effect as holding the notes? Or would there be a sacrifice in sound?

Would the thumb remain straight on this technique too?

Not if you're using the pedal! Really? I know it makes the notes ring, but would that achieve the exact same aural effect as holding the notes? Or would there be a sacrifice in sound? The sound is the same, except for any noise made by the release of the key. Try it for yourself and see (that is, hear).

Or would there be a sacrifice in sound? The sound is the same, except for any noise made by the release of the key. Try it for yourself and see (that is, hear). True, but only if you hold the pedal all through the bar. I don't think I'd want to, with so many densely packed 6ths to fill up the sound. The best fingering would depend heavily on the next bar, as I suspect that the music would call for a strong sense of connection to whatever begins the following bar, rather than a self-contained unit that ends at the barline. However, 52-41-52-41 (connecting the 1 to the 2 with full legato, on the 14-25) would probably work, if you have a large enough hand. If you do repeat the thumb, the key is simply to rest properly upon the keybed before release. Students I've had always worry too soon about the following note, in these kinds of passages. Just play the first 6th as though nothing follows- ie relax straight down. You need to feel a true sense of resting here. It's common either to fail to feel the bottom of the keys in the first place, or to continue pushing at the keys with unnecessary muscular effort, rather than find balanced alignment. After resting properly, release the thumb as a completely separate process and move it over the following note (but retain the weight FULLY on the upper finger). Then you can fully connect with legato, to the following fingers. This may seem extremely indirect, but before you isolate these individual components of the whole, you cannot hope to put them together as a more rapid movement. I'm not sure whether Alan would say similar things or not, but from my experience, the key is essentially to train your hand to reach a neutral, balanced position on EVERY 6th (firstly with the thumb down, and then after the thumb has been released). Even when done at speed, there should be a fractional moment of balanced comfort, between the key strikes. The flaws usually comes through the unwanted tension of anticipation- which can manifest itself as excessive pushing after the key has been depressed or failure to get fully into the base of the keys in the first place. Concentrate on the intermediate points of weighted balance, to remove either problem. EDIT- one other thing: I'd lift the thumb high in between the two notes and gradually reduce that bit by bit. It's easy to try and make the movement TOO concise too soon, before having learned to control the relevant muscles. Remember that 'jabbing' the thumb is the worst thing. Counteract any tendencies towards this by using big swinging movements of the thumb (feeling the aid of gravity upon a vertical descent, rather than the muscular tension associated with a locked 'jab'), before you try to reduce this to anything that is remotely concise. Eventually you will find that it's possible to keep the same 'feel' of the movement, while gradually reducing the distance travelled. I'm not personally convinced about the 'glissando' (at least not in the same sense as when you run your thumb nail down the sides of a series of keys), but as the movement becomes more efficient, it can eventually be done legato. The freedom of movement must be the starting point though! If you aim for true legato too soon, you'll probably fall into the trap of jabbing your thumb.

Sorry for not preparing this post correctly. But here is a better picture... So far I've been described how to take each route but I'm not sure which route I should take... Should I go the route of disengaging my left hand from the whole notes since their being held by pedal to help my right hand with the melodic harmony line? Treat the 6th's like playing octaves (By jumping and making them sound slightly choppy)? or Should I go the route of playing it with this fingering... D/B: 2-5 C/A: 1-4 B/G: 2-5 A/F#:1-4 B/G: 1-3 C/A: 1-4 D/B: 2-5 B/G: 1-3 D/B: 1-4 E/C: 2-5 D/B: 1-4 B/G: 2-5 Which route would be best? And questions to follow... Is there any point in trying to achieve legato if i'm already holding the pedal? In future scenarios, If I am using pedal and I'm holding a whole note bass chord with my left hand (as was done in this passage), is the left hand permitted by traditional/modern piano school to disengage from holding that whole note bass chord, in order to play other notes elsewhere on the keyboard/piano? And while i'm at it... One thing I do not recall being included in the DVD is proper pedal technique... What is proper pedal technique? EDIT: Thanks Czifra, I'll definitely take your advice to mind when I play this passage, which ever fingering route I end up taking.

Fascinating how many points of view there can be on something like this... here's my 2 cents' worth: For me there are two fingering solutions to the double sixths, neither of them being 5 4 5 4 2 1 2 1, which I find the most awkward solution of all despite its having the most actual, physically joined legato notes. I would finger those four dyads either 5 4 3 2 1 1 1 1 or 5 5 5 5 1 1 1 1. Either of these can work well, you remember to keep building the arch of your hand as you proceed through the group. The first solution allows you to use less pedal and create the legato in the upper line. The second is ideal if you are using a more pedalled sound. A lot of this depends on the style you are seeking and the acoustic of the hall you are playing in. A piano secret you should know: in all double notes, if you play one line legato, the ear will think that both lines are legato anyway, so you don't have to actually play both upper and lower voice legato. You are wasting your effort, because acoustics doesn't work that way. That's why I dismiss the first fingering I mentioned as awkward. Firstly, with this fingering you will have more difficulty in maintaining your arch than with either of the others. Secondly, there is really no need to go to all that trouble, you don't gain anything by it! It is even possible to create a legato line by playing only the lower voice legato - it doesn't have to be the upper voice that's joined. Joining either one will create the required impression or illusion. AFF