Arpeggios

Please work

Mr. Fraser, I want to thank you for your video. It has transformed my playing and more importantly how I look at the piano and practice. I've been playing for almost two years and had been studying the lister-sink method. I'll just say it is good I came across your teachings sooner than later. I've recently cultuvated a feeling where the bones just move from one to the other. It is hard to make my nuckles colapse now and my arch stands un naturally. I look at my practices like yoga - paying attention to breathing, the spine, total body musculature. I almost feel free with what I am doing at the 88. Thank you. As for arpeggios, this is an area where I'm lost. I don't know what to do but I have so many ideas. My big problem is with passing the thumb under (especially in the right hand under finger 3). How do you retain legato for this connection with out twisting the wrist. Even with forearm rotaion I feel I am doing something wrong. Usually the arm aproches the keys at about an 100 degree angle when I play, should it be closer to a 145 degree angle, aproaching more from the horizantal. In the video of Jorge Prats you recomended I noticed he sits a little higher than I do which gives him more of a downward angle in the arm (he also aproaches from the side is seems). This too would seem to clear up the problem with the thumb passing under but I could also see this disempowering the arch as the wrist begins to become the key stone as the arm raises. There is a fine line between beeing seated properly at the keyboard and being too high. I've tried playing them like you do scales in your video. I've tried the tai-chi legato where everything is connected which works good when playing slowly. But what about when you play fast? The sea-saw (as one note is going up the other is going down in an arch motion) seems to clear this up, and while the legato is not blended as well it still sounds good and alows for more mobility. I sure would like to know what you think works. So many roads to go down. This is definetly a trip I would like to take with some direction.

GREAT question, welcome to our forum! Many answers, some too long for here... One thing I wanted to put in my DVD but my director cut because of time restrictions: they filmed several virtuosi playing scales & arps in the old days and asked them if they passed the thumb under legato or put the 3rd or 4th over legato. They ALL said yes they do, and the slow motion film showed that NONE of them did! What the films did show was that their thumbs were very active. Hold your hand still and move your thumb as far as you can left and right. If you do this maximally, chances are you are moving it more than you do in your arpeggios. This actual lateral action of the thumb can replace not only swiveling which I abjure but also a good deal of the rotation that I show in the film. You can practice this legato, and maybe you will get to the point where you play at speed, you still perceive it as legato, even though there may now be a subtle, imperceptible break as there was with those old guys... Give it a try and let us know how it goes. Oh,and thanks for your compliments, I am glad to be of service! AFF

Hi Alan, I could understand when playing extreme fast, sometimes the motion simply adapts unconsciously and the thumb doesn't pass under. I'm very interested to see that part in the DVD. In fact, I've been trying to slow down some masters' scales and arps, in veil because the DVD or youtube simply isn't designed to show that. Is the time restriction a limit of the DVD or simply a commercial one? Hope you could issue a second DVD soon.

Even if they are not actually connecting notes in a physical legato, they may well still be passing the thumb under at least to a slight degree. The thumb must also PLAY the note, it means depress the key, and that itself is a vigorous action. The third element of movement here is the rotation of the hand which replaces horizontal swiveling. Although here the thumb perhaps may not actively move, it can feel like a whip being thrown or cracked by the hand as it rotates. These three elements of movement combine to give what you see those greats doing with their thumbs. As for my second DVD, I am working on it. However, I must tell you, a lot of thought and preparation goes into each item I produce, generally years. My second book, Honing the Pianistic Self Image, has been THIS close to being finished for quite some time already, but whenever I try to arrive at a definitive version, some new idea comes along that just HAS to be included, because it improves the overall structure or fills in a crucial missing part. I do really hope to get it out by the end of the year, but the DVD version of that will not be ready before 2010 in any case. I hope it's worth the wait! best regards, AFF

Many answers, some too long for here... One thing I wanted to put in my DVD but my director cut because of time restrictions: they filmed several virtuosi playing scales & arps in the old days and asked them if they passed the thumb under legato or put the 3rd or 4th over legato. They ALL said yes they do, and the slow motion film showed that NONE of them did! Could you possibly upload those videos somewhere ?

I would if I could but I can't because I don't have them! This was something I heard about years ago from my teacher in Montreal, Phil Cohen, but never saw. If ANYBODY knows where we could hunt those videos down, please holler! AFF

I'd like to see the videos too. Alan, I think you are right. What it is said is done is not what IS done. Just an aside to you, Alan. I'm glad to know how you feel about swiveling. (Where were you when my 1st piano teacher was breaking a yard-stick over my fingers for not doing it?) --A decade ago, the cartilage in the left side of my left wrist was torn. It can't be repaired. I was a bit desimated, to say the least. How do you swivel the wrist when on a pain scale of 1-10, horizontal swivel is at an 11? Moving vertically or thumb under is no problem, but side-to-side wrist is a big ouch. Would I ever be able to play piano again? The answer: don't swivel. There are still a few Chopin pieces with arpeggiated bass, where with my small hands, it seems to be the only way I can do legato. However, I'm working on it--trying to find another, the right way. You sure help in this. Thanks. Bob T

Hi all, This video on YouTube shows Richter playing Chopin's arpeggio etude (Op. 10 No. 1), with the camera looking down from above so you can see exactly what his thumbs are doing the whole time. Although this isn't one of the videos Alan was talking about, it shows very clearly that Richter never puts his thumb under his hand to play these arpeggios. --Rush

When you guys say "swivelling the wrist", what kind of motion is that? I was taught that when we play arpeggios back and forth, our hand movement and wrist should resemble the movement of when we iron clothes, is that the swivelling, if it is then I'm in trouble!! Anyway, can somebody kinda go into more detail for the hookie over here... thanks!!