Alternating between pushing/pulling in op. 25 no. 12

This is reminiscent of Abby Whiteside's "alternating action": ocd

This is reminiscent of Abby Whiteside's "alternating action": ocd What do you mean exactly? Whiteside's idea is based on being in pretty much constant flux between two opposite directions of movement with the arm. There's certainly an element of "alternation" involved here too, but I think it's rather different to the idea of continually either going one way or reversing directly back the other way. It's more about two individual styles of moving the finger into the key- rather than a steady and continuous flow of constantly ongoing alternation. You couldn't really say that either movement is the opposite of the other (unless pulls were based on extreme curling of the end joints, rather than executed from the knuckle). I think it's actually a little trickier to do this in the op. 25 no. 12 for this reason, compared to arm alternation in the other Etude. Rather than getting into a flow of simply reversing direction, you have to train the muscle memory to know which specific action is required for each occurrence of the 5th finger. Although it's certainly possible to get used to doing this, it's a lot less immediately natural to get it flowing out compared to a repeated cyclical movement of the arm.

I just want to make a remark on pure finger pulls from the knuckle. I dont think there is any doubt that this is the fastest action possible with any kind of pull. It could be used for fast and precise trills, and superfast repetitions with a minimum of movement and use of energy. My method for fast repetition is to use a fast pull, and when the key is a little more than halfway up, use the momentum of the finger for an additional pull. Strangely enough, in my experience, it is easy to get the repetition precise and even. It is difficult to explain properly, but I manage to do something that works quite well. And the thing about alternating between pushing and pulling sounds like a bad joke. The fingers moves in the most effective way possible in any given situation. Take a look at Kemal Gekic. The movements of his fingers defies any theoretical description, and probably goes beyond any known method. Confidence as a basis for freedom, as Heinrich Neuhaus says. Gekic is the living proof of that. And at a somewhat more modest level, I permit myself to use that as the foundation of my playing.

"I just want to make a remark on pure finger pulls from the knuckle. I dont think there is any doubt that this is the fastest action possible with any kind of pull." A few months ago, I'd have said exactly the same. However, I've realised that I ruled out the idea that some degree of finger extension might be useful far too easily. This doesn't negate the "chain" concept I've described in my blog, but discovering the sheer difference that comes from even a tiny sense of extending forwards has changed a huge amount of things in my conception. In a sense, it's still a pull- as the knuckle action is identical. However, the slight extension in the other joints is enormously significant to the consequences of a finger movement. Before I write up the basic difference in the two different finger actions, I want to find a way of making the extent of the difference absolutely clear to all. At a piano, I honestly believe that I could illustrate the principle I describe above for the Etude within a few minutes. Some people might choose not to use it, but I believe I could convince almost anybody of how much more easily the thumb gets to its note, it you employ the corresponding style of 5th finger action. However, it's harder to convey with words, which is why I want to think carefully before I write this up on my blog. However, try thinking of it this way, to see if it makes more sense: Imagine a heavy weight on a long stick attached to a hinge. It can move 180 degrees in a semi-circle between falling all the way to the left and falling all the way to the right. Hold it perfectly vertical and it might balance. However, with a long stick and heavy weight, this is purely theoretical and effectively impossible to achieve. The tiniest fraction to the left and it will fall left. The tiniest fraction to the right and it will fall to the right. An observer may spot zero visible difference before release. But the difference in the end product between being released marginally to the left or right could scarcely be bigger. A 0.000001% margin of error changes the result spectacularly. This is not a subjective metaphor. Finger actions are much the same. Either the finger action serves to create a force that either serves to pull the arm forwards, or pushes it backward (Gekic included!). This difference is MASSIVE!!!!! If you're being pulled forwards and trying to play a run of many rapid semiquavers, you cannot afford to let the wrist go up and forward with every action. This either demands released arm weight to pull the wrist back or stiffness to prevent movement. However, if the reaction pushes the wrist back away from the piano, it actively serves to improve alignment! It was only after I realised this key difference, that I was able to understand Alan's idea of the ultra-light arm where you scarcely needs to think of reactions. Without the corresponding direction of finger actions, it had been impossible to set up such a scenario. My wrist had been pulled out of alignment by intense finger actions (rather pushed INTO alignment), so release of weight was the only way to stop a crooked wrist. Until I found a finger action that generates alignment (rather than spoiling it), it was impossible to be quite so passive in the arm. Since discovery of the key distinction, Alan's weightless arm has been enormously useful to me. However, whenever I use pure finger pulls, the arm must release to balance the forward pull at the arm- unless I'm okay with the wrist getting tugged forwards. Distinguishing between the two styles of action (and how they effect the arm as a whole) has been a spectacularly big discovery. "And the thing about alternating between pushing and pulling sounds like a bad joke. The fingers moves in the most effective way possible in any given situation. Take a look at Kemal Gekic." You take a supervirtuoso (who has already mastered both the pure pull and the extension) to illustrate that the fingers will supposedly automatically move in the most effective way possible- as if that can be expected as normal by an everyday player (who may not be clear on either action)? How about an average learner? Do they have the instincts and experience of Gekic? How many people are lucky enough to do this well on instinct? I cannot overstate how much speed and control I have recently gained from perceiving the difference in the two actions (although I stress that I still use much of both). I have been truly stunned by how much difference it has been making to understand the true consequences that result from each individual action. Compare my wrist in these two: There's still much work to be done, but I don't think anyone could miss how much better the alignment is in the Etude. The extension actions are drastically improving my alignment and stopping the wrist cramping up. The right hand is generally okay going up- but I still get stuck too far forwards on the way down. I still need much more active 5th finger extensions to push the wrist back away- but you should see how bad this looked when I tried filming it a few months ago! 5th finger pulls on the way down (rather than the more appropriate extensions) had me bobbling around all over the place. It was extremely cumbersome not to use both options.

Cziffra, I think the main problem here is describing technique in words, especially when we are speaking of very subtle variations in movement. And then we have the fact that people are different, and play the piano in very different ways. I watched the videos, and things are happening too fast to get what you are doing. When I am playing fast and improvising, I often dont know how the fingers and hands are moving either. I admit that one should be careful about using people like Gekic as an example, but the point I tried to make is the total freedom of his playing. All his energy and his movements goes into the actual playng of the piano. Even the expression of his face hardly changes. What I find so extremely useful is his basic approach to piano playing, and to music. It is very useful to discuss the finer points of technique, as long as one is aware of the limitations of language. And the limitations of technique. I can be a relentless perfectionist with technical details, but I admit that I have some difficulties in following the discussions here. Still a beginner in the study of Alans methods, and not too familiar with the technical concepts.

"Cziffra, I think the main problem here is describing technique in words, especially when we are speaking of very subtle variations in movement. And then we have the fact that people are different, and play the piano in very different ways. " The thing about the reaction to a finger activity is that it falls into one of two categories. Either it's tugging forwards at the wrist (towards crooked alignment), or pushing it back towards maintaining straightness. The sheer significance of this is virtually inestimable, in my opinion- especially when you start using high intensity activity. While there are many different details, like the weight on a hinged stick it's a situation where it either falls one way or the other (and where hitting a middle-ground is nothing but a theoretical concept that is quite impossible in practise). I'm not saying there are only two movements though. I'm saying that movements of the fingers all fit into one of two broader categories. If the wrist is being pulled forwards, that can be balanced by a counterpull- although the body may be more inclined to simply want to tense up instead. However, there's an alternative style of movement where no such pull is needed, because the wrist is never being displaced in a negative way to start with. My point about the video is not about the fingers themselves but the upon the arm. These should be very easy to pick up if you follow the wrist rather than the fingers. Look how crooked the right wrist gets in the Mephisto. While I did a reasonable job of staying relaxed at times, there are other moments where I was simply having to fight against the reactions that were pulling it further forward still, with each and every finger pull. In the Etude, you can see a much straighter and more consistently aligned wrist. However, there's a significant difference between going up and down. On the way down, it still gets a little excessively high and there are bobbling movements (I should add that I wasn't thinking about what I've spoken of in this thread at the time). This is why I'm working specifically on differentiating between the two categories of finger action. I need to ensure that I'm properly using the one that serves to straighten the wrist back out- rather than the one that serves to tug it further forward. If I worked on pure pulling actions in that direction, I could easily end up making my problems 1000x worse. Regarding the finger movement itself, it's harder to understand from words alone but it's really not a complex issue. I'm preparing some videos of the most exaggerated versions of the two different qualities, in order to illustrate how to perceive the drastically different consequences of each.

Cziffra, you are absolutely right about the importance of the wrist and how it relates to the movements of the fingers. And it is crucially important to get that to function properly.Took me awhile to get the point. My basic technique is good, and I only had to see how my hands function to understand what you are talking about. Not that I do this perfectly, I am still experimenting and working on it. I think that in piano playing the wrist has the same very important function that the waist has in advanced Tai Chi, which I do in the style of some Chinese Yang masters. The important thing is balance and the principle of action reaction. And that brings me to another important and basic aspect of piano craft, how you sit, and good posture. I did not really get into that until I studied the thread on leaning and shiting weight. I think it was you who started it, because you found it so useful. You brought up another interesting thing which I have been thinking about. Kemal Gekic and what you can learn from him. I agree with you that for the average player, learner that would not be useful. I discovered a very fine learning principle a long time ago; only to learn from those at the absolute top of their profession. I have only managed to do that with direct contact with four or five persons, and the rest has been through books, videos and listening to music. So it did not take me long to recognize the importance of Alan Fraser, Kemal Gekic and this forum. And words are very useful, even for discussing music.

a theoretical description of what Kemal does, and if I have failed, it has still been a fascinating experience from which I and many others have learned a great deal. And I'm closer now than I was then! In Kemal's case, confidence is the basis for freedom. Of course I'll never catch up because Kemal's technique is evolving faster than my understanding of it... All best, AFF