Horowitz's Scherzo 3

Sure, I think you'll like it. His Gaspard is also quite incredible- with some amazingly precise articulation in pppp. Yeah, I think I heard someone describe them as being like cackles of laughter in between. Another thing that Grosvenor does in the section is with the little fragments containing the dotted rhythm from the start. He brings an extreme kind of Viennese lilt here.

Perhaps the joke of the Third Scherzo is the fact that the form does not match the content. Chopin chooses the musical form of a "joke", but provides emotional content that is the antithesis of a joke. In that sense, the Scherzo could be construed as employing black comedy and grim irony. The musical form would lead you to expect a light, humorous composition (some of the staccato octave passages, if stripped of their dramtic context, seem stylistically similar to woodwind-like staccato passages from a Beethoven scherzo), but Chopin provides a diabolically intense piece.

I like this explanation. Thanks! AFF

Here's that recording I mentioned in this thread some time back: I find his ability to create a sense of percussive edge (while simultaneously playing with such restraint in the dynamics) pretty incredible. It's a little reminiscent of some of Cziffra's effects.

I'm glad to have found a thread on the OP. 39 Scherzo, especially as regards the quieter chorale section, which stands alone as probably one of the most difficult passages of Chopin to get right, (despite its relative simplicity). As much as I found the Grosvenor recording exhilarating and exact to the point of disbelief (viz. the fast 2-part finale section - absolutely incredible!) I found the downward, arpeggiated cascades in the chorale section a little unconvincing. In the Richter recording, (taken somewhat too slow for modern buffs but with 100% conviction all the way through) I seemed to get a better idea of Chopin's intentions in the contrastive nature of this great Scherzo. It's more or less the right speed for mere mortals to play it at There's one thing that does interest me about the Chorale section, the actual Chorale is written by Chopin almost as an organist would play the chords, sometimes with ties and elisions between chords, as-per "Sin pedale" (requiring huge hands!). Even in the Richter recording he uses the pedal for the Hymnal chords - but I wonder......?

If you do as much actual holding of the keys down, as the notation indicates, even on the pedal it will change the sonority. There is one school of thought that holds we should use the sustain pedal less and less as a substitute for finger legato and more and more as an additional colour TO that finger legato. This is absolutely true. There is another practice which uses the pedal to mask the fact that we are letting go of keys early, even when we COULD hold them longer, again in order to lend them a different sonority. Both schools, diametrically opposed, are completely valid and completely necessary to master - if ya wanna play da piana good.

I had a listen and I did like the rhythmically straighter approach of Richter. However, I'm not convinced that Grosvenor is doing anything contrary to Chopin s intention. I heard someone describe the runs as being like cackles of laughter over the top of the more serious chorale. I find Grosvenor's approach extremely fitting for a contrast between seriousness and silliness and I find the rhythmic liberties help to differentiate between the contrasting elements. Richter keeps up the more noble and serious character and it certainly works, but I don't think exploiting the chance for massive contrasts between the two musical elements of sobriety and lightheartedness run against what Chopin was looking for.