Brendel And Horowitz, High-Rider And Low-Rider

What I'm specifically interested in with these two videos is comparing and contrasting the sitting positions of these two great pianists, Alfred Brendel and Vladimir Horowitz. Clearly, both approaches work. Are there advantages and disadvantages? Or do the differences even matter? Brendel playing Schubert Horowitz playing Scriabin Brendel sits high, elbows above key level. He tends to sit erect and sometimes he even leans back. Horowitz sits low, elbows below key level. He scoots his tail back and inclines forward the whole time. Brendel often plays with high wrists. He doesn't have to bend at the wrist to do this since his arms are already so high in relation to the keyboard. The position of the thumb strut exercise becomes a practical playing position. It seems to me Horowitz levers his whole torso forward to support his hand structure. Clearly, it's strong. You can really whack the stuffing out of the instrument this way if you want to. I wrote another post recently in the Technique forum about trying an arm effort that drives forward instead of pulling back. I've been experimenting with mimicking Horowitz's posture. I sit low anyway, but now I'm trying out scooting my tail back and inclining forward. It seems to engage the upper body in the playing action, or it feels like it anyway, instead of sitting straight up and keeping the torso a more or less inert base for the arms. It sure feels different. I think I feel the keys more keenly. It looks different in my hands, too, but most important, I think I sound different. So what do these two pianists' approaches do for the respective players? How does each approach help? Does either approach limit one of them in any way? It doesn't seem to be the case. They are both great pianists, and each is able to make his approach work for him. What do you think? Jai Jeffryes

This is an interesting topic. I definitely sense a musical difference between these two groups. Here is another comparison between Aimard and Gould. They are playing different slow fugues from the Art of Fugue. Both pianists are doing a lot of things well, but I think a difference emerges. Aimard:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsM82LWsDf4 Gould:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vacZrMF32Y I think both of their Op.110s are also available. In a nutshell, I think that with a high seating there is much less resistance so the impulse of the body into the piano is weaker. It is easier to focus on the musical picture and to command the whole keyboard but a lot of the tonal precision and character gets lost. The key to answering this question probably lies in the activity of the lumbricals. We discussed this earlier with Marc Andre Hamelin. Hamelin has some wonderful qualities and he does many things beautifully but because he sits relatively high, he does not have to activate as much. This robs him of some expressive capability. But I would have to defer to Alan Fraser on this point. All four pianists are excellent but I think Aimard and Brendel lack the personal, speaking quality of Horowitz and Gould. So sitting low is probably worth the extra effort when combined with skeletality and vigorous finger activity. Does this help at all?

What I'm specifically interested in with these two videos is comparing and contrasting the sitting positions of these two great pianists, Alfred Brendel and Vladimir Horowitz. Clearly, both approaches work. Are there advantages and disadvantages? Or do the differences even matter? I find Brendel's loud playing forced and extremely ugly. There's less room for fingers to differentiate, so you get lumps of arm sound- rather than individually controlled tones. I was actually practising recently with alternating between standing and kneeling while playing. It's a very interesting exercise to compare, and then play normally and compare again. When standing, the fingers can extend very clearly, without the mass of the arm being much of an issue. However, if you need to play loud it's very hard to get any big sounds without the arm pressing. It's important to be careful not to press, when doing the exercise- but to just feel the fingers extending out. Compare to kneeling- where the mass of the arm can easily burden the fingers. This time, it's important to feel space opening up between the armpit, to lighten the arm up. The arm cannot simply hang down without support, like when standing. When the arm is lightened by a feeling of drifting out with the elbow, the fingers can operate very clearly in a very different way- without the heavy arm forcing them to bear too hard into the keybeds. As well as helping with different sensations that transfer to regular playing, I think this experiment gives a clear illustrating of how much of a role the mass of the arm plays- even when you are very willfully keeping it from either falling down or acting upon the hand in any immediately obvious way. Although both scenarios greatly improve the clarity of hand movements from a passive arm, they show much the position of the arm affects everything. Brendel doesn't get enough get enough help from his position (even if he completely releases support at the shoulder 100%) and has to force with his arm to compensate.

Here is an interview with Peter Nero who's teacher was close to Horowitz see page two: Concluding that sitting like Horowitz necessarily brings out a sound and fluidity like his might be a misconception. I fell into that trap and I think it interfered very negativly on my technique.Good thing was that lumbricals got to work. Otherwise our anatomy is very much individual and for one individual a high sitting position can bring a sound more similar to Horowitz's than low sitting. As Nero points out Horowitz was very relaxed and comfortable in that akward position. I think most individuals will tense up considerably sitting like that. I beleive VH was like 175cm had relatively small thin fingers. He used to sit higher and very far from the piano.Probably he had more problems with his technique than others. Of course he solved them. And leaning forward I would say is the opposite of "adding" power. You add power when you move from leaning forward to "pushing up". At the Carneige recital VH does lean very much forward in playing Scarlatti and that is to be able to play pp-ppp with speed. Interesting subject indeed would love to see Alan develop this as so many of us waste time on imitating Horowitz...

A fascinating thread and I promise to develop on it when I have a bit more time! AFF