Confused Newbie

Greetings All, I am confused by a few points. First, the Arch. In the DVD, Alan often demonstrates the collapse of the Arch as a natural cause of failure, and that the remedy is to train oneself to keep its potent structure. But here's the thing: my Arch does not collapse in the first place! When Alan says something like "...and the arch wants to collapse but we don't let it"--- I say to myself, "huh"? My arch does not "want" to collapse the way he's showing it! In fact, I was using the potent arch even before watching the video. Moreover, I used to stand on the fingers with that arch, transfering the balance from one finger to another aka "finger walking" (although without overholding, I do admit), so no finger school either. And YET I do have wrist pain and tension and general motoric clumsiness. What am I missing then? Second, the thumb push-ups/windhshield wipers. I don't understand this at all. The only way (for me) to feel no muscles involved in standing on a thumb is when it is LOCKED IN (broken) in the second joint. If I straighten it to imitate Alan's ideal demonstration, I feel many balancing micromuscles involved in keeping the thumb from locking in. (Try to stand on one leg without locking it in the knee and you'll get the feeling) I would actually expect many people to "break" the second join, because it seems is more natural.

Hi, I can't asnwer for Alan but I can share my understanding of the points that you bring. Your arch probably does not collapse in the way that Alan shows in the DVD, but can you detect if there are tiny-split seconds collapses when you join 2 notes? Chances are, that if you don't overlap the notes and accurately control the attack of a new note and release of the previous note seperately, then you will have an imperfect legato and a momentary collapse. Listen carefully to the 2 notes that you try to connect - does the transition sound smooth (giving the illusion of a violin or a singer gliding between 2 notes), or does it sound like 2 percussive attacks? I think the natural instinct for most of us is to lift the finger of the last note at the same time as the next note plays, but with even slight overlapping of the notes you can create a beautiful singing voice. You mention that you do feel wrist pain - do you maybe press too hard and try to "fix" your wrist in a specific position rather than letting it "breath"? Is the 2nd finger knuckle the top of your arch, or is the wrist taking over as the apex of the arch? Some of the excercises in the DVD ask you to press really hard, but this is only an excercise to help you feel you internal structure better. In actual playing you should learn to feel the potency your structure with much less pressing - sometimes we have to exaggarate something in order to understand it and gain refined control over it. When I first did the overholding exercises I felt a lot of pain and I could not do them for more than a few minutes a day. A simple thing like holding 5 keys down and lifting each finger seperately while keeping the others still holding their keys seemed like intense effort and I was pressing very hard to keep the fingers clamped to the keys. As I developed my finger independence, I didn't need to press so much anymore, I felt secure just standing on the keys with no effort, and the wrist was free to move - not locked in place and not trying to take over the role of the arch's keystone. As for thumb-push ups - it is a fairly muscular excercise. I think you should actaully feel the muscles there very clearly. As Alan says in the DVD - some muscles are going to work more than before, most are going to work less. I think many people tend to underuse the muscles that move the thumb leading to all sort of hand and wrist motions to compensate. I think these excercises are designed to awaked these dormant muscles and put them to proper use. Those balancing micromuscles need to work but once they learn they proper work it feels as if no muscles are working at all. It is more an issue of coordination of those tiny muscles than actual strength or muscle mass. I hope this clarifies things a bit - I can't really know if what I say is valid in your case, I am just sharing my experience when I first did those excercises and was asking myself similar questions. Zack

Hi Zack, thanks for posting! Hi, Your arch probably does not collapse in the way that Alan shows in the DVD, but can you detect if there are tiny-split seconds collapses when you join 2 notes? Chances are, that if you don't overlap the notes Hmm... I must say, I am not sure if I understand the "collapse" of the arch. Alan's demonstration of the collapse kinda makes the hand look like a chimp's claw (sorry Alan), but I've never seen anyone actually do that, me including. So, I wouldn't know if I have a split-second collapse, but it's not that chimp's claw for sure You mention that you do feel wrist pain - do you maybe press too hard and try to "fix" your wrist in a specific position rather than letting it "breath"? Is the 2nd finger knuckle the top of your arch, or is the wrist taking over as the apex of the arch? I do try to fix the wrist! In fact, I am in constant search for a good position for the wrist (a failing search). Alan's demonstration is a bit confusing here too: he starts off with one finger and "breathe in, breathe out" -- at this point I am taking mental notes like "ok, lift the wrist high when depress the key, put down on release", but then (kinda suddenly) all bunch of the rest of fingers start to "breathe in and out" in what seems a completely arbitrary way. So I find myself confused: is there a system for the wrist movement or not?? Then a student girl is shown, Alan maintaining her wrist at low position, and I take mental note like "aha! I should keep that wrist low!" But then again, it doesn't work out, because a low wrist just falls off the piano with the hand altogether... Put your palm into a bird's beak and place the finger on the key just as you would if you understood it perfectly. Your grasp is there, hence your arch is there-- but what is your wrist doing? When I first did the overholding exercises I felt a lot of pain and I could not do them for more than a few minutes a day. A simple thing like holding 5 keys down and lifting each finger seperately while keeping the others still holding their keys seemed like intense effort and I was pressing very hard to keep the fingers clamped to the keys. As I developed my finger independence, I didn't need to press so much anymore, I felt secure just standing on the keys with no effort Wow, holding 5 keys down is a problem for me as well! The keys are pushing it back up. AND that horrible C-major position - even Chopin said it was the least natural position! so HOW did you develop that finger independence?? In fact, every time "activating the fingers" is mentioned in the film, I am asking myself: what is meant exactly? I still don't get it.

Hi student! I had similar thoughts when I started with the DVD. My hand did definitely not collapse but I found out to my surprise that my second finger and to a certain degree my thumb was not f u n c t i o n a l.They were not very well connected so to speak. They were not as supportive as they should and that created strain in the whole mecanism. Just have patience and work without tension your neuromotor will connect soner than you think and new more efficient muscles will develop.You might feel some pain in the hand if you do it right but thats just a sign that new areas are coming into play. With the right positions of the hand (as shown in the DVD) you will avoid all dangerous pain. There is no way to force this developement playing Bach without pedal is a very good exercise to get the basics. Like the inventions which also is a fantastic occaision to try all the different ways of creating sound that is in the DVD. Many of the inventions requires totally different touch-techniques.

Hi Student. You mention very similar difficulties that I have struggled with and I had to watch the DVD's first chapter a few times and try various things until I "got it". I do think the book clarifies in more details some things that Alan just demonstrates very quickly on the DVD, and might not be clear at first. I do try to fix the wrist! In fact, I am in constant search for a good position for the wrist (a failing search). Alan's demonstration is a bit confusing here too: he starts off with one finger and "breathe in, breathe out" -- at this point I am taking mental notes like "ok, lift the wrist high when depress the key, put down on release", but then (kinda suddenly) all bunch of the rest of fingers start to "breathe in and out" in what seems a completely arbitrary way. So I find myself confused: is there a system for the wrist movement or not?? Then a student girl is shown, Alan maintaining her wrist at low position, and I take mental note like "aha! I should keep that wrist low!" But then again, it doesn't work out, because a low wrist just falls off the piano with the hand altogether... Put your palm into a bird's beak and place the finger on the key just as you would if you understood it perfectly. Your grasp is there, hence your arch is there-- but what is your wrist doing? I think the fact that you are searching were to "put" your wrist is an indication that your arch is not as potent as you think. You hand might look like it has a natural stable arch, but it does not feel like the arch is secure enough to let go in the wrist. In general, my understanding is that Alan advocates low wrist as a "basic" position you have to learn first (later you might modify it for different sounds). To verify your arch is secure, try it first on a table , and try to use the other hand to put pressure on it in various point - you might discover that it is easy to collapse your arch, but a slight adjustment of your bones alignment might make you feel more secure. The wrist doesn't have to be ultra low, but it should not be higher than your 2nd finger knuckle - this is your arch's highest point- not the wrist. You can even rest your wrist on the table at first so it doesn't confuse you - once you learn to align a good arch, move your hand to the edge of the table, as if playing the keyboard. Once you feel secure with a rigid arch, try to make it moveable WITHOUT losing structure. Move your hand forward and backward, while keeping the fingers touching the table - the wrist slightly rises as the hand moves forward (but the arch rises even more!) You can look at this clip on youtube as an example of how Alan works with a student: Once you find the correct alignment of the hand's arch, you should feel that you can let go of the wrist - you don't need to actively raise it or lower it - it just follows the hand and positions itself in the most effortless point. There is actually a slight movement of the hand and wrist on every note that you play (unless you stiffen it intentionally), but it is only a slight alignment that follows the fingers - the main action of depressing a key comes from the finger. Wow, holding 5 keys down is a problem for me as well! The keys are pushing it back up. AND that horrible C-major position - even Chopin said it was the least natural position! so HOW did you develop that finger independence?? In fact, every time "activating the fingers" is mentioned in the film, I am asking myself: what is meant exactly? I still don't get it. If you prefer to work on B major first you can start with that too. Eventually you will learn them all. If the keys push back up you are floating your hand or arm too much. Try to let go as much as you can in the shoulder, arm and wrist. Relax everywhere EXCEPT the muscles that hold the arch - keep those knuckles high - your hand is heavy enough to depress all 5 keys unless you actively try to float it. You need to develop this feeling that you are not actively pressing into the keys but also not hovering above them - this is what Alan calls "standing". Once all 5 keys are depressed and your arm/shoulder wrist feel loose and arch feels stable. Try to slowly lift 2nd finger. If other fingers start coming up, try it even slower and identify the exact muscles that you need to move to lift only the 2nd fingers and maintain the arch shape. You could also use your other hand to move the finger to help teach yourself how to do it with minimal effort. It is very difficult at first but practise it a few minutes everyday and in a few weeks you will not understand why it used to be such a big deal. When I started this I had the opposite problem - I was pressing too much, and was not able to lift my fingers without a lot of effort and pain. I hope this helps - after all, I am just guessing based on what you write and my own experience what the problem might be, but each one of us has a different hand and a different internal feeling. Zack

Hello again, guys, and big thanks for all comments, I think it is happening for me! I.e., I am getting what the method is about and the wrist pain is leaving me. Two further questions: (1) The Arch can be considered (at least by me at this stage) equally potent and stable when the fingers are "locked" in the nail joint, i.e. the classic "broken" finger joint that all teachers seem to bring so much attention to. My question is: what's so wrong with it? Teachers never explain. So what if some fingers are placed like this here and there? Try it for yourself: the finger stands, as well as leaning on the wall, both are equally stable when the nail joint is locked in. So why the big fuss about it? Just look in the book the 4th finger is broken, and the caption says "skeletal alignment" (image from Alan's site) (2) How do you play staccato?? Tai-chi finger walking and overholding is impossible with staccato. Let's consider a staccato scale as an example, so that it is clear that I am not just talking about some single staccato notes here and there.

(1) The Arch can be considered (at least by me at this stage) equally potent and stable when the fingers are "locked" in the nail joint, i.e. the classic "broken" finger joint that all teachers seem to bring so much attention to. My question is: what's so wrong with it? I think Alan can probably answer with proper reasoning of this one, but this what I think: It might feel to you equally stable, but it is probably not equally functional. There is more built in tension with locked nail joint - the finger cannot voluntarily hold itself in this shape - it only gets there as a result of pressing a key. It is also not necessarily a "wrong" position - it is just not the most effortless way to stand on a key. I think Alan recommends learning the "basic" position first - high arch - low wrist - fingertips touching the keys and you feel your entire bone structure balanced like a house of cards so that there is minimal muscular effort. Once you are comfortable with that you start introducing variations like flat fingers and playing with the finger pads instead of tips. (2) How do you play staccato?? Tai-chi finger walking and overholding is impossible with staccato. Let's consider a staccato scale as an example, so that it is clear that I am not just talking about some single staccato notes here and there. Of course overholding is impossible with staccato. There is no single physical organization that fits all kinds of sounds. There are many different ways to play staccato - one of them is shown in the DVD in "out the back door".

The thing I love about this forum is getting to know people who are really grasping my ideas and invoking them in responses that indicate a really profound understanding of what I am driving at. It's gotten to the point where I don't even have to respond to posts but can safely leave it in the hands of Andrew, Zack, Eric and others. Congratulations and thanks to all of you, you are really inspiring! And in welcoming our new member, 'student,' I must congratulate you as well for really perceptive and pertinent observations and questions. As for the image you quote from the book: yes, my fourth finger distal phalange is splayed out there: this is because I am trying to convey the power of the metacarpal phalangeal arch, and it actually can be somewhat more powerful when that bottom joint is "broken." Horowitz, Kemal, Misha Dacic and others often play like that. This is actually one of my favorite of all Sonya's almost 100 drawings - I like it so much that I actually repeated it in on page 34... HOWEVER, indeed you must be able to curl that bottom joint, and to pass through a stage where you don't let it collapse. This gives you a finer and subtler version of the arch, whereas the splayed distal version can be useful for rich, powerful tone. My 'cliffhanging' exercise is useful for developing the curving and curling ability of the distal phalange . The important thing I like to stress in staccato is the separation of arm and hand as I demonstrate in the 'Arm Rhythm' section of the DVD. And as Zack says, the 'Out the Back Door' thing is a wonderful way of getting really nice, sharp staccatos... Thanks again to you all, AFF